Fadal delimma

alloy

alloy

Dan, Retired old fart
H-M Supporter Gold Member
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Jul 5, 2014
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As some of you know last year I purchased a Fadal VMC from where I work. Paid $2k for it and it's running great. They had 6 Fadals and got rid of three of them to bring in two new machines. They are getting 3 new Okuma's and getting rid of the remaining Fadal's in three weeks. Mine is a VMC15, a 20" machine.

All three machines they are selling are 3016's (30"). Two of them have a 4th axis on them. One has a large 4th, probably a 10". They paid well over $10k for just the 4th about 4 years ago. The second one has a smaller 5C 4th. I've made an offer of $5000 on the one with the big 4th which is what the dealers are offering per machine. I never thought I'd be able to afford this machine, but tool dealers want 4020's. So they are only offering $15k for all three machines with or without the 4th on them.

I was offered the small 4th off the one machine for $500 with all the electronics that goes with it. This one will fit on my machine that I have now. The electronics are very well integrated into this machine so I'm going to have a tech remove it for me so I don't screw something up. Was going to have him put it on my machine at home, but if I get the bigger machine with the larger 4th I'm not sure it's worth paying to have the small 4th put on my machine. Probably cost me an extra $500 for the install. There is just the 4th on Ebay for over $4k. with no electronics.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VH5C-Fadal...245994?hash=item56c6305dea:g:FT4AAOSwDmBdCVDZ

If the deal goes through and I get the bigger machine I'm planning on selling the machine I have now.

My dilemma is do I just buy the small 4th and offer it for sale with this machine, or pay to have it installed and sell it that way? I know dealers low ball everything, but I'm shocked that they won't offer a dime more for the machines with the 4th on them. Good for me, but I'm not sure if it's the same if I try to sell it.

The tech is $100 per hour travel time, and $150 per hour working on it. I'd bet pulling the small 4th off and reinstalling it would tear up a $1000 bill, and I'm guessing around $400 just to remove it.

Hopefully I've not confused everyone here. I welcome your opinions.

PS: If anyone is interested in the two remaining Fadal's let me know. They are in Vancouver WA and they will be loaded free onto your truck.
 
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I bet you could pull it off and install it yourself. Then have the tech dial it in. Will your shop feed you any extra work?
Cheers
Martin
 
Believe me, there is no way to pull it off if you don't know what you're doing. There is a separate power supply rack for the 4th. If I screw it up I'm on the hook to fix it before it sells. So I'm playing it safe, making sure everything I need is removed and protecting my job. I can just hear my boss now if I did screw it up.

They have a couple of parts that are set up for the 5c collet on the small 4th they will probably farm out to me. If the deal goes through I'll sell my small mill and that 4th, but I have a 5c collet closer off the fadal I had 15 years ago that I can adapt to the big 4th.

Right now I don't have anything I need a 4th to make, but for the price there is no way I can pass that machine up. I'm sure I can find something to do with it
:grin:
 
It sounds like you're not gonna get hurt either way. I would be inclined to make the smaller machine complete with the 4th axis, as I read your post you only have $2k plus moving charges into the smaller machine so adding another $1k should make it more attractive to another hobbyist or small shop owner when you go to sell it. Remember, dealers only offer half or less than what they think a unit will sell for and they don't really deal with the hobbyist market AFAIK.
 
This sounds like a fun dilemma to have. If I'm understanding the post a few things come to mind. I asked our tech (perhaps the same guy as we are in Oregon) recently what it would take to move our 4th axis from our 4020 over to our 15XT, if possible. It is but there are differences in the card sizes between the two machines. The 4020 uses a larger card than the 15XT however the rest was compatible. The card with the software from FadalCNC would run $1600 to make it work on our 15XT. You mentioned that the small 5C will fit your machine now so perhaps that means the electronics are all suited to move right into your cabinet. If not that might be another big expense to get the job done.

If however that's all irrelevant I think just having all the 4th axis gear available for install is good enough for a potential buyer. Someone might look at that and think it's totally in their wheel house to install it. If they don't want its you could always sale it on ebay or CL for more than $500, and save you on the install cost. It also doesn't rule out potential buyers with no interest in having the 4th axis who don't want to spend the money on it.

I know that when the time comes the owner wants to sale these machines I might try to bring one home here from my work as they are really good machines.
 
Go for it sounds like your ahead of the game either way. I would think a 4th axis on any machine would be desirable. Not like your just buying to have, sounds like you’ll make great use of both machines and u will recoupe your money maybe for both machines on the old ones sales. Good luck.
I just bought a haas 4th axis with a chuck for 45 bucks off a auction yesterday can’t wait to get it home to see how to adapt to my Bridgeport if possible. Can they be wired without a haas?
 
As somebody who will be in the market for such a machine in the near future, I would certainly pay extra for a 4th axis ready (and equipped) machine. Not sure if I am in the minority, however. I believe it will make the machine more attractive to buy, and you will get back what you put in if patient enough. If time and floor space is an issue, probably would not install and just sell it separately. If the buyer knows of it, could be a plus for negotiations on your end.

Either way, I am sure there will be plenty of folks trying to leverage it against you no matter which path is taken.
 
I would purchase the smaller 4th axis but not install it. Offer it as part of the package to aid in the selling of the machine. Most buyers want the full Monty, but may end up never installing it. As stated by bakrch, use it as a negotiating point of the machine, sell it as an option at what you paid or say $750. Probably not worth the additional cost of the install, and as you can always flip it for a lot more. I would look at the used market as too pricing with or without the 4th axis to see the price difference as a guide, but in many cases it may not add significant value if installed. Worth including as an accessory as a selling pint, the buyer can determine who installs it.
 
$2k for a Fadal? shoot me now for not living anywhere close to WA!
 
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