Epoxy Granite (EG) The cheap and easy way... I hope.

[Taz]

I love experiments!

Preface:

I realize there are tons of posts, articles, videos etc... all over the place, but I didn't make any of them, and thought at the very least, I could provide an epic fail. If we're lucky, I might even make something that works! I have been successful making EG before, 50% of my drill press weight is composed of EG, but acquiring the appropriate clean media was a PITA! Getting my hands on the right kind of epoxy was even worse. Then you still have mixing, and the chemicals to acquire... Would it be easier the next time? Of course! I am impatient when a wild hair gets me though, so I want a quicker up-time, and zero wait if I need more of what I'm out of.

I feel like I was successful in part one of this experiment so we'll continue. Based on that, I believe that this is something someone with the inclination could prepare for in less than a single 8 hour day, and easily break into smaller time-slots if they so desired. Apart from making the molds, the actual application takes much less.

I'll try to be very detailed, and post my successes as well as my failures so we can learn both. I'll make the posts thorough as I can, but please pipe in if you have questions, input, recommendations or you just have an urge to bang a keyboard for a while. I'm a nice guy, and here to have fun and learn, if you want to join the ride... you're invited!

If we come up with a successful formula and process, I will compile it all into a document(s). I'll maintain a section at the bottom of this first post for references, a table for all the products involved (Figure 1), and links to any documents I create, and keep the tables in this post updated to include any new suppliers or materials, to save the hassle of looking through all the pages this may turn into. I'll try to take careful measurements of everything, and document it thoroughly with pictures, graphics, and video. If nothing else it'll be fun to look through!

There are already some of the references at bottom I found most useful during my first EG attempt. Here are some of my favorites excerpts!"

1. You can develop hyper sensitivity to epoxy where none existed before. This can occur inside and outside your body... WEAR APPROPRIATE PPE!
2. Epoxy doesn't stick to polyethylene (Plastic cups, and grocery bags).
3. Casting in thick sections can generate lots of heat, be careful!
4. Buy your own stuff (Don't use your wives)

Goal:
To find and document a viable EG mixture using only readily
available and where possible CHEAP resources from distributors with national
chains and enough locations for at least 4 for each of the lower 48 states. These are the 4 I chose."

Suppliers
Supplier	US Locations
Walmart (Supercenter)	3100+
Michael's Crafts	1000+
West Marine	325+
Home Depot	2200+
Ace Hardware	4600+

"Purpose:

To have fun! Also to document a formula for us hobby machinists to make cheap and suitable machine castings from EG.


The action:

So here we go! Nothing is more important when it comes to a good bond, than making sure your adhesive can actually make contact with with your media. Cleaning can be done many ways, the simplest one is to fill a 5gal bucket up about 30%, shove a hose into the bottom of it, and let it flow till clear. I wanted to make sure I kept all of the Mica in this stuff (which is very very light and will float in salt water for long periods of time). Plus in the name of science, I wanted to see what all was in here, and what proportions each grade were found within.

This is decomposed granite found in most home improvement centers. Its cheap and absolutely filthy! I used an 8in wire strainer, an aluminum cookiesheet to put the cleaned product on, and a big plastic salad bowl. The process is simple and very quick, it yields 4 different sizes of media if you do it all the way. 3 sizes would save you all of 2 minutes, but you may not actually need to differentiate between the smallest 2.​

​

1. I took a cup at a time of the mess in that salad bowl, and dropped it into the strainer.
2. Shook it till the soot quit rolling up to the top.
3. Rinsed it under running water till it came out clear.
4. Dump onto cookie sheet.

You can see here what's in the basket is clearly not clean yet. It still looks muddy, and it is.​

Now, it's all clean! As you can see there isn't a whole hell of a lot of overhead in the tub. Most of that is because I'm sloppy. If you follow the process here it's really a pretty clean deal.
​

In case you're wondering why I didn't just start with the running water, it's because I wanted to catch the finer media. This whole process for about 15lbs of the granite took me less than 20min, I don't imagine that it would take more than a fraction more to do the whole bag. That includes the process for cleaning all the finer grades.

[video=youtube_share;vqWG0vNmKIQ]http://youtu.be/vqWG0vNmKIQ[/video]

As you can see here, round one of the cleaning took care of almost all of the soot.


​

And here is what fell to the bottom of the rinse bucket after that first rinse. I let it sit for about 10 minutes after I cleaned the larger grade off, to let the good stuff settle and push the water up, and then just pored the murky stuff off the top.


This small rinse cup, got me the finest grade of media, almost powder, and full of Mica. I followed up with a
dunk/shake in the bigger bucket which yielded about the same volume of a larger grade, more like fine sand.


After rinsing off the finer grade using the smaller and finer 3in mesh strainer the final rinse was done using felt squares. I love these things! I always keep tons of them on hand. I use them to clean out my solvent tank, to filter the crud out of oils when repairing machinery so I can see what may be contaminating it. They are nice because they allow high volumes of fluid through very quickly, but will hold back even powder like particles. I lay one in the 8in strainer basket and use as normal. When I'm done with the rinse I'll bunch up the corners and wring all the water out of the contents, which gets me something like this.

​

OK, I've got a little more to dry off before I show the results, should be done by morning (I'm just letting it air dry). I got all of this done, including the video and pictures in a single afternoon (putting it all together like this is another story though). I'll take pictures of what came out the other side, and we'll take a look at what proves to be the shortest route to clean EG media!"

Materials & Tools ( Stuff the average shop wouldn''t already have)
Home Depot
Product	MFG P/N	Vendor	Price	Quantity	Notes	IMG
Natural Play Sand (Pavestone)	55141	Home Depot	3.68	1	Very fine grain, very uniform and clean to start. Will still have lots of dust regardless, needs to be rinsed.
Pool Filter Sand (Quickrete)	54201	Home Depot	5.49	1	Medium grain, very uniform and clean to start, high silica content. Will still have some dust regardless, needs to be rinsed.
Decomposed Granite (Pavestone)	54160	Home Depot	4.47	1	Nasty, filthy, dirty stuff, but it's made to poor into walkways, and press into a hard packed stone path. It hass all the right stuff to fill it's own voids and a natural ability to lock itself into place
0.5 cu. ft. Pea Pebbles (Vigoro)	440773	Home Depot	3.97	1	The picture is wrong, but it's closest I could find. It's the mixed pebbles that I use, much smaller versions of what is pictured. As with everything else... clean.
0.5 cu. ft. White Marble (Vigoro)	440943	Home Depot	3.97	1	Huge chunks, but low yield on <3/8 agregate. Based on large piece sizes, you wouldn't want to use where the smallest cross section is less than 6 inches.
2 Gallon Bucket	2GL WHITE PAIL	Home Depot	3.58	1	Love these things!
Preval 9 oz. Complete Spray Gun	267	Home Depot	4.97	1
West Marine
Product	MFG P/N	Vendor	Price	Quantity	Notes	IMG
West System 105 Epoxy Resin - 1qt	105-A	West Marine	41.99	1	Good stuff, pot times from 7-30 minutes depending on hardner.
West System 206 Slow Hardener - .44pt	206-A	West Marine	20.99	1	This is the correct stuff, I grabbed the fast hardener 205 by mistake, so ignore later pictures where you may see it.
EVERCOAT PVA Polyester Curing Agent	105685	West Marine	15.99	1	Looks like good stuff. Never used it before though.
Epoxy pigment marine	100508	West Marine	10.99	1	Really cool, between the pigments, and the media you use, you can achieve some really awesome colors and finishes with ZERO paint.
34oz Mixing Pot	806	West Marine	1.59	2
Walmart
Product	MFG P/N	Vendor	Price	Quantity	Notes	IMG
8in Mediam-Mesh Strainer Walmart	4386	Walmart	3.67	1	Every shop should have one, great for filtering small parts out of solvents and other treatments
3in Fine-Mesh Strainer	4332	Walmart	2.39	1	This was only purchased to process the finer media, never had a need for one before, but it worked great!
Cookie Sheet - 13" x 18" x 1"(Nordic)	43100	Walmart	10.71	1	I have 8 of these, I use them all the time. $10.71ea, 3031 havy gauge aluminum, steel reinforced rim, frankly it's hard to find that much raw aluminum at that price! Check the video to see it in action.
Cookie Sheet - 13" x 9" x 1" (Nordic)	45300	Walmart	9.99	1	Smaller version of the above, 2 fit side by side in the same space as one of the above. Also Priceless for keeping parts clean and organized during a restoration/rebuild
Michaels
Product	MFG P/N	Vendor	Price	Quantity	Notes	IMG
12" x 12" White Felt	n/a	Michael's	0.49	1	I always have some for just this purpose. Works great as a very fine filter, and cheap as it gets.

References:
EPOXY RESIN FORMULATION MADE SIMPLE: CASE STUDIES William T. McCarvill and A. Brent Strong | Notes on different types of Epoxy Resin Mixtures

EPOXY WORK | General notes on safety, and some basics

GRANITE MILLING MACHINE BASE (SUCCESSFUL HOMBREW EXAMPLE) | An awesome looking dovetail column mill with an EG base

KEPLER CONJECTURE Johannes Kepler | Starting math behind choosing aggregate grades


Index:

1. 03/18/2013 | 12:00:00 AM | Splash page (First Post)
2. 03/20/2013 | 08:57:00 PM |

Changes:

1. 03/18/2013 | 12:00:00 AM | Initial Data
2. 03/20/2013 | 08:57:00 PM | Added New Products to Splash

 

[Taz]

We're back in business! My appologies to all who lost their posts, it appears that there was a little technology hiccup, and some of my posts fell out along with it.

Fortunately, I always write the code for something this large, outside of the browser, and keep backups, so NO RE-WRITES! :thumbsup:

Also thanks to Nelson for keeping backups as recently as he does (Really a lot), not to mention having www.hobby-machinist.com in the first place! We appreciate what you do brother!

 

[Taz]

Just a few tips on reading this thread - Epoxy Granite (EG) The cheap and easy way... I hope.

Just a few notes for those who didn't notice on the first trip through, or are here for the first time. I try to keep things as concise, and un-cluttered as I can, but that also means there is lots to do. There are lots of things in here you can click on, that will take you somewhere else, or do something else.

For instance:

• In the Products Table, clicking on the product name will take you to it's page on the vendors website.
• All of the photos will take you to my PhotoBucket.com library, where I've stayed pretty up-to-date with titles, and notes on each photo.
• All YouTube videos are and will continue to be available in at least 720p, so if your monitor is capable of it, make sure you up the resolution.
• References are also links to the documents or websites to which they refer.
• Index will continue to provide direct links to key points in the thread (So it will be easier to navigate if it gets too long).

I will also begin to make an interactive PDF of the process available to download in case you are a print kind of hobby-machinist. So we should have the holy three covered, type, video, and ink!

 

[strantor]

Taz, you're awesome. I can tell you've put a lot of work not only into the research, but into the presentation as well. I'm sure you put in hours of work into this post and I really appreciate it. I hope to do some EG project soon, as it interests me. This thread will be the first resource I turn to, as it's concise, and all there on page. There is a metric asp-load of information available on the CNCzone thread, but I don't have enough hours left in my life to read all of it.

 

[Taz]

Taz, you're awesome. I can tell you've put a lot of work not only into the research, but into the presentation as well. I'm sure you put in hours of work into this post and I really appreciate it. I hope to do some EG project soon, as it interests me. This thread will be the first resource I turn to, as it's concise, and all there on page.

Thanks! It did take more more work than I expected, which reminds me... Thanks again to all of our other members who take the time to write detailed logs, take great photos, and produce awesome videos! I've learned so much from you guys!

There is a metric asp-load of information available on the CNCzone thread, but I don't have enough hours left in my life to read all of it.

Ha! Yes there is, and I read the whole thing, before i made my first. There is tons of good stuff in there, but its mixed in with a lot of your typical forum madness. I'm a scientist, and love information, but I'm a craftsman first. It's all very interesting, but you said it, there's a bunch of stuff to go through before you get some substance.

I don't want to discourage anyone from chiming in here. Its supposed to informative AND fun. Which is why I made the index, and the references, and will just continue updating the core articles to include whatever we learn on the way.

Now that its all back up and running, I can get on with part 2! Hope to have time to finish the test mold today, and post the results of the media prep tonight.

 

[arvidj]

Re-post of a post that was lost during the hiccup ...

Will you be suggesting aggregate and epoxy recipes and possibly process and procedures for those of us that would like to add mass to existing structures ... like a lathe stand or mill column and base, etc. ... rather than mold a new piece like the granite milling machine base?

Or maybe it doesn't make a difference.

Thanks for putting all of the together,
Arvid

 

[Taz]

Re-post of a post that was lost during the hiccup ...

Will you be suggesting aggregate and epoxy recipes and possibly process and procedures for those of us that would like to adding mass to existing structures ... like a lathe stand or mill column and base, etc.?

Thanks,
Arvid

Yes, plus pics/video of the process involved. That was actually my first project with EG. I'll be logging all the measurements (weight/volume etc) of each attempt, and then we'll look at how they perform. I'm making a special repeatable mold, so any unsuccessful attempt can be followed by another from the exact same size/shape. We'll take a look at finish, appearance, rigidity, and density/composition.

 

[Taz]

Sorry for the delay guys. Still hunting parts for the South Bend, plus, I had a unfinished project I had to get running. Super computing power... Check. Have some day job work to catch up on today, but we'll take a look at the washed aggregate and some basic principals of calculating density tonight!

 

[woodtickgreg]

Super computing power.....I like it. I know that's the inside of your puter but that's about all I know...LOL. I've been following this awesome thread just for fun, and who knows.....I may try it myself some day.

 

[Taz]

Super computing power.....I like it. I know that's the inside of your puter but that's about all I know...LOL. I've been following this awesome thread just for fun, and who knows.....I may try it myself some day.

Haha, thanks. It really is a killer machine. Put the second GPU (Graphics Processor), and the rest of the RAM (Short Term Memory), the other day. I'll spare you the nerdy details, but for those that drool over this sort of thing, lets just say Ivy Bridge - Extreme.

OK, I got my other project (DC Drive motor for SB) done, which sort of dictated how i made the drive-end riser for which this thread is based on. So I can continue un-hindered. I'll see if I can get part 2 together tonight/tomorrow, and we'll move on.