DRO Issues???

Nyala

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I'm currently using my PM-25MV to make BXA QCTP tool holders for my PM-1236. I am making 14 new tool holders. I have cut all of the long slots for the the tools and all of the dovetails. The dovetails fit great and I have had no issues in the process until now. It should be noted that I also used this machine to make AXA tool holders for my South Bend Model C lathe so I am not unfamiliar with the process. I now need to drill the 5 threaded screw holes in each tool holder.

I have nearly completed 7 tool holders thus far with all the holes drilled and threaded, but not without issues. I'll explain my process. I proceeded with caution, making sure (hopefully) that I wasn't making a mistake because it's been awhile since I made the AXA tool holders. First I did X-Y edge finding and brought by tool to the first hole location, marked as X0,Y0, and SDM 1. I was using a spotting drill and made a tiny pin prick mark at that location and double checked its accuracy against a steel rule. It looked fine so I went on to SDM 2, X.750, Y0. I made the pin prick mark and measured again. All looked well and I repeated this process for SDM 3 & 4, completing all four holes used for tool lockdown. I then moved to the counterpoint on the X and offset SDM 5 by .186, and all was well against the rule.

From this point I spot drilled SDM 5 and in reverse order, SDM 4-1. All was well and all 5 holes were drilled and tapped without issue. For the next tool holder, again being cautious, I repeated the same process, using all SDM setting that were saved and measured again against the rule. All was well and I spot drilled as I went.

After spotting SDM 5, I changed to a Letter Q drill and drilled 5/8" deep, then tapped for 3/8-24. No problems. I went to back SDM 4, but something looked off. The DRO was slightly off, and I mean slightly, from the spotted location. Using the DRO to determine any error I re-positioned the cutting tool location about .007 to the right, in the X axis. Not much so I didn't worry. I drilled through with a Letter F drill for a 5/16-18 thread to be done after holes SDM-1-4 were drilled. I moved on to SDM 3. Now the DRO was off about .030 from the spotted location and the work/tool had to be adjusted in the X-axis again to line up with the spot. (Y axis was locked). SDM 2 was off about .023 and SDM 1 was off about .007. Drilling and threading was done by eyeballing the tool line up with either the spot or the drilled hole. I could not trust the DRO.

I had been using a vise stop to work against so I removed it. For all toolholders after that I went through the edge finding process and found the X0, Y0 location for SDM 1. But in experimenting I found that the saved SDM location were always accurate when going from SDM 1 to SDM 5. However, when going in reverse 5-1, and using DRO readings, the DRO placed the tool and various dimensions, always off to the left, such that if you drilled a hole using DRO readouts it would be to the left of the spot.

I have brought 7 tool holders to the point where all holes are drilled and tapped. The holes were all spot drilled using the SDM saved dimensions going SDM1 to 5, in that order. All holes were drilled and tapped by eyeballing in reverse order 5-1. Dimension errors were not always the same. What was previously an error of .007 might be a .012 error the next time. Errors ranged from .005 to .042.

It should be noted here that last year I found that the X-axis lead screw nut had come loose ( after suggestions from members herein) and I fixed that. The machine has not been a problem until now. In addition, I recently installed an X-axis power feed from Precision Matthews, but I was not using it due to the short distance between hole locations.

Any ideas as to what might be causing this. Sorry for the long explanation but I felt it necessary in case anyone could spot an error in my process. Thank you.

Denny
 
Couple questions..

What DRO & sensors are you using?

Is the read-head or sensor bar slightly loose on the mounts?

Do you have any backlash in the lead/feedscrew?

Is this purely a "happens only in a single direction" issue or has it ocurred in the opposite direction of travel when using the same methods?
 
I had something similar happen to me on my PM25MV X DRO. The DRO is miscounting in one direction and counting correctly in the other direction. In my case, it got progressively worse. A simple test is to use a pair of 123 blocks on your table. Clamp one of them down. Then install and indicator in the spindle. Set the indicator to some known value. It doesn't matter what it is as long as the indicator has some load. Then set your DRO to zero. Now move the table to the right and place another 123 block flush against the first one. Then move the table so the indicator reads the same as the first time. Read off the DRO value. It should be 3.000". Now remove the block and traverse the table back to the first block and load the indicator to the original value. The DRO should read 0.000".

In my case, the return to zero value was non-zero. This gave me cumulative error while using. Eventually the error was over 0.05" doing the test above. I called PM and they recommended cleaning the DRO scale and read head. The problem was reduced but not eliminated. Eventually, PM agreed with me that the read head needed to be replaced. They shipped me one and I installed it. Problem fixed.

I would say the root cause is DRO contamination. If you have been machining a lot, it is possible for swarf to collect enough to force it into the scale assembly. There's not much distance between the rubber sheet on the bottom and the DRO seals. Stuff collects fast and you need to clean it out to avoid this.
 
15 pcs is production ! :grin: Put one in a vise up against a stop and spot drill. Remove and do 14 more . Drill all same way . Tap all same way 15 times . Do all 5 holes this way . Your machine will only be moved 5 times and you won't have to pick up all these locations . You're spending more time moving the table than machining the holders . I know isnt solving the initial question , but rather a order of operations improvement . :)
 
I'm currently using my PM-25MV to make BXA QCTP tool holders for my PM-1236. I am making 14 new tool holders. I have cut all of the long slots for the the tools and all of the dovetails. The dovetails fit great and I have had no issues in the process until now. It should be noted that I also used this machine to make AXA tool holders for my South Bend Model C lathe so I am not unfamiliar with the process. I now need to drill the 5 threaded screw holes in each tool holder.

I have nearly completed 7 tool holders thus far with all the holes drilled and threaded, but not without issues. I'll explain my process. I proceeded with caution, making sure (hopefully) that I wasn't making a mistake because it's been awhile since I made the AXA tool holders. First I did X-Y edge finding and brought by tool to the first hole location, marked as X0,Y0, and SDM 1. I was using a spotting drill and made a tiny pin prick mark at that location and double checked its accuracy against a steel rule. It looked fine so I went on to SDM 2, X.750, Y0. I made the pin prick mark and measured again. All looked well and I repeated this process for SDM 3 & 4, completing all four holes used for tool lockdown. I then moved to the counterpoint on the X and offset SDM 5 by .186, and all was well against the rule.

From this point I spot drilled SDM 5 and in reverse order, SDM 4-1. All was well and all 5 holes were drilled and tapped without issue. For the next tool holder, again being cautious, I repeated the same process, using all SDM setting that were saved and measured again against the rule. All was well and I spot drilled as I went.

After spotting SDM 5, I changed to a Letter Q drill and drilled 5/8" deep, then tapped for 3/8-24. No problems. I went to back SDM 4, but something looked off. The DRO was slightly off, and I mean slightly, from the spotted location. Using the DRO to determine any error I re-positioned the cutting tool location about .007 to the right, in the X axis. Not much so I didn't worry. I drilled through with a Letter F drill for a 5/16-18 thread to be done after holes SDM-1-4 were drilled. I moved on to SDM 3. Now the DRO was off about .030 from the spotted location and the work/tool had to be adjusted in the X-axis again to line up with the spot. (Y axis was locked). SDM 2 was off about .023 and SDM 1 was off about .007. Drilling and threading was done by eyeballing the tool line up with either the spot or the drilled hole. I could not trust the DRO.

I had been using a vise stop to work against so I removed it. For all toolholders after that I went through the edge finding process and found the X0, Y0 location for SDM 1. But in experimenting I found that the saved SDM location were always accurate when going from SDM 1 to SDM 5. However, when going in reverse 5-1, and using DRO readings, the DRO placed the tool and various dimensions, always off to the left, such that if you drilled a hole using DRO readouts it would be to the left of the spot.

I have brought 7 tool holders to the point where all holes are drilled and tapped. The holes were all spot drilled using the SDM saved dimensions going SDM1 to 5, in that order. All holes were drilled and tapped by eyeballing in reverse order 5-1. Dimension errors were not always the same. What was previously an error of .007 might be a .012 error the next time. Errors ranged from .005 to .042.

It should be noted here that last year I found that the X-axis lead screw nut had come loose ( after suggestions from members herein) and I fixed that. The machine has not been a problem until now. In addition, I recently installed an X-axis power feed from Precision Matthews, but I was not using it due to the short distance between hole locations.

Any ideas as to what might be causing this. Sorry for the long explanation but I felt it necessary in case anyone could spot an error in my process. Thank you.

Denny
You say it is good one direction but has accumulative error the other? Did you try drilling the hole 1 to 5 then back up and perform the subsequent operation in the same order (1 to 5)? If so did it preform accurately? I suspect Wobblyhand is correct, you likely have a bit of debris that gets in the way of the read head in one direction and slides out of the way in the other.
 
Thank you all for your responses. I looked at the DRO (installed by PM) and judging from the amount of swarf I'm generating, it is quite likely that something has contaminated the read head. I've tried to keep the area clean but with 14 pieces to create it can be a mess. I'm now down to one tool holder left and my milling is done. Once I clean things up (again) I'll remove the DRO and clean it to see if I can find any contamination. I appreciate all of your suggestions.
 
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