Do-All 1612-3 Vertical Bandsaw Refurbish/Get-It-Running Project

[bcall2043]

Weather here in middle Tennessee has been too hot to work outside projects but I was feeling trapped indoors today. The shop has no cool air but I decided to work on my newest old bandsaw anyway. This project has been on the back burner waiting for.........no real reason I can think of. I thought I could do a little cleanup/tear down while setting on my butt in front of a fan in the shop and not get too hot. The lucky find of one of the factory optional accessories for this saw at a flea market yesterday also helped inspired me to start this project moving while my luck holds.

A Little Background:
When I saw the sale ad for a Do-All 1612-3 vertical bandsaw, what caught my attention was the fact that it had a power feed-in table. The iceing on the cake was the fact that it is a solid built "Made in USA" saw weighing in at 1975 pounds . The feed-in table feature is a lot better than standing there pushing material through for what seems like forever. I had collected info on adding weight/pulley feeds to my existing vertical bandsaw but never got around to doing it. So I bought the Do-All and made the decision to get rid of my current Rockwell/Delta bandsaw when the Do-All was up and running.

Major currently issues with the Do-All known going into purchase and this project are as follows:
1. Internal wiring configuration not known - tag shows 440 volt, 3 phase. The seller did not know for sure but said that it may have been changed to 220 volt 3 phase.

2. Table feed hydraulic cylinder is missing. Hydraulic lines were laying loose inside the enclosure and the oil reservoir was empty. Reasons for these issues are not known.

3. Variable speed belts (2) need replacing.

4. Air pump drive belt missing when purchased. Not known if pump is defective or just needs a replacement belt.

5. Seller did not know if any other components might need repairs as he was not the last user of the saw. He said he took it in a trade.

Getting started:
I am not a purist but would like to keep it as near original as possible but cost and ease might win out over original.

This is going to be a long drawn out project but did get a little done today. I know everone likes pictures so I will attach a few as I go. Also will need to make decisions on how to resolve issues with repairs as I go along.

Photo 1 shows the saw as moved into the shop and still setting on pallet jack.


Photo 2 shows a closer shot in the table area with some leveling screws/pads I found in the scrap yard. These will allow the saw to be leveled per manual specification but still allow the pallet jack underneath for moving.

I decided to investigate the voltage issue #1 first so I could decide up front how to resolve this. I am electrically challenged so bear with me. The build tag specs. for this machine say it shipped wired 440 volts. The motor would have to be dual voltage before any changes could have been made. The tag on the motor and motor leads were not easily reachable and everything was dirty inside so I decided to clean and remove the motor and variable belt drives for inspection.

Photo 3 shows the drive side cover removed and ready to start. Note the hydraulic lines hanging loose.

Unrelated: Found the neat "REPAIR AREA" sign seen in Photo 3 in the scrap yard last week so I placed it on the saw. I like signs!

Photo 4 shows the saw "gutted". The motor, variable drive belts/pulleys, air pump, and oil pump have been removed and some initial cleaning done. Initial cleaning was done with K1 applied with a squirt bottle, brushed, and wiped with rags.

The main drive motor is shown in Photo 5 with a WD-40 spray bottle setting next to it for size comparison. The motor is huge but is only 3 HP. The motor is multi-voltage so it can be, or may have already been converted to 220 volts but I did not unwire the connections to determine voltage wired for yet. Just cut the L1, L2, & L3 supply wires and left them in place for later cleaning and inspection.

The motor, air pump and oil pump all turned freely and did not seem to have any mechanical grinding issues. A closer evaluation will need to be made once they are up on the work bench. Opps, that is a problem, bench is buried! Need to clean up the bench but decided to save that for a cooler day and went back into the house to have a cool glass of water.

I have a few decisions that need to be made at this point. Some of these are as follows:

1. How do I power this beast?
I have a rotary phase converter but it is limited in the amount of power it can supply. The saw has three motors but I currently need to dig deeper to determine their specs. The motors are Main Drive, Coolant pump, and Blade Grinder. There is also a blade welder built into the saw. I'm thinking multiple power sources may make more sense rather than one 3 phase source. Does multiple power sources create code issue?

2. Do I convert the main drive to direct VFD control or keep the variable speed belt dirve?
Availablility and cost of the special drive belts is not known at this point. A VFD would allow a direct drive but creats other issues.

3. Do I disconnect the hydraulic system and anchor the feed table so that I can get the saw going quicker or fix it now?
My current situation of having two vertical bandsaws taking up limited floor space in the shop seems to be a good reason to rush this project to a useable point before the cold wheather sets in (today 108F again, cool not in the forcast at this time). The saw could be used without the power feed.

Has anyone done a refurbish on a similar saw and have any ideas or suggestions?

Suggestions or thoughts are welcome.

Benny

Note: I tried to add photos in order but that did not work. If you put cursor over the thumbnails the photo number will pop up. At least it does with IE Explorer 9. Benny

 

[12bolts]

Hi Benny,
Looks like you got some work cut out for you.
I cant really help much with your motor drive options, but if it has been converted at some stage then the welder must have been disconnected. You might want to delve deep into the bowels and check to see if any of the wiring looks to have been modded.

Nice project anyhow.

Cheers Phil

 

[xalky]

i would not use a vfd on this. If it were my machine I would try to use a rotary phase converter and keep all the stock electrics as close to stock as possible so that usage of the blade welder, table feed and motors can all run on the same power source. This might mean that you'll have to use a transformer to step up the voltage from your RPC to 440/480. all the motors wont be running at the same time, will they? If they do, then you'll have to size the RFC and transformer accordingly. It's too bad it can't be switched internally by swapping a few wires to get it to 240 3ph. that would be the ticket.

 

[bcall2043]

i would not use a vfd on this. If it were my machine I would try to use a rotary phase converter and keep all the stock electrics as close to stock as possible so that usage of the blade welder, table feed and motors can all run on the same power source. This might mean that you'll have to use a transformer to step up the voltage from your RPC to 440/480. all the motors wont be running at the same time, will they? If they do, then you'll have to size the RFC and transformer accordingly. It's too bad it can't be switched internally by swapping a few wires to get it to 240 3ph. that would be the ticket.

Marcel,

Thanks for your thoughts. I still have not cleaned up the motor and its wiring so I can check and see what voltage it is connected for. I did dig into the mess of wiring up top where the disconnect is located a little yesterday. There is no indication on the disconnect what voltage it was last connected to but the incomming power went to a 3 phase contactor and from there directly to the motor with no transformer in between. Looking at the labels on some of the terminal strips and contactors there was 440, 220, and 110 available inside the cabinet. The 110 volts was probably for the work light and controls. I have not removed the blade welder from the saw yet but I was able to get a schematic for several of the Do-All blade welders from one of the guys on another forum. It appears that the blade welders may have all been 220 volts requiring a drop-down transformer if connected to 440 volts. There is a big transformer buried inside but I cannot see how it is wired yet.

I agree with your thinking at this point. A VFD with enough 440 volt output would be large and costly. I have not yet given up on the possibility that internally it may can be simply converted to 220 volts with some wire swapping. That would have kind of made sense from a manufacturing point of view.

I don't believe my RPC will be large enough to power the beast but I need to build a larger one anyway. I have another project on the back burner, a surface grinder with three motors. This hobby takes a lot of time and money!

Benny

 

[xalky]

Well if the welder runs on 220 3ph maybe you could swap out the 440 3ph motor for 220 3ph or open up the motor and check the wiring plate on it to see if you can change it over to 220 3ph. If the pump motor also runs on 220 3ph you'd be golden. For the 110v part you'd just take it from one of the 3ph legs and neutral to get 110v. Or you could just wire the 110v portion into one of your shop outlets.

I'm finding it a little odd that the welder is 220 3ph and the motor is not. Seems like an expensive way to do things from a manufacturing point of view, since you have to add a transformer just to get the welder to work. I'd check that motor real good for the wiring plate diagram, Sometimes they're inside the motor cover plate. What about the hydraulic motor, do you know what that is?

I just had another thought. Lets suppose that your motor is only good for 440 3ph .If the transformer is big enough you should be able to wire it in reverse to go from 220 3ph up to 440 3ph to run the band motor, of course this is assuming that the motor wouldn't require more juice than the welder does. Are you following me? Most step down transformers can be used as step up transformers too, by simply reversing the wiring.

The 110v part is a no brainer.... worse comes to worse, just seperate it out and pull the 110v from an outlet.

Marcel

 

[bcall2043]

Spent yesterday on the lake at the home of a friend who is also an electrical engineer. Took the opportunity to review the Do-All project with him over a cool beer. I had photos of the wiring that I could reach without taking everything apart and the wiring schematics copies for the blade welder that I was able to locate. He was pretty much convienced by the wiring photos and my notes that the saw has been converted to 220 volt 3 phase at some point in its life without putting his hands on the machine . He said if I cleaned the motor leads and compaired the current motor wiring to the nameplate diagram that should nail it. This afternoon I started cleaning the motor with K1 and Purple Power. The motor is built like a tank. It is a sealed unit with external fan cooling and ribbed motor frame. More important to the project I found the motor leads were marked with metal labels so reading them was no problem. Oh, by the way, it was/is wired for 220 volts. At this point I am thinking the best way to get the machine up and going is to plan on running it on a rotary phase converter. My RPC is only a 2 HP unit so I can't run the saw using it. I have test started a 3 HP motor on the bench using it in the past so I plan on doing that as soon as I get through cleaning the saw motor and get it lubricated with fresh grease. Hope it spins up with no noise!

Guess I will have to perform a RPC upgrade before I can really turn the Do-All into a useful tool. This was in the plans for some time and I think I have collected all the parts I need to complete it. Meanwhile there is still a lot of cleaning to do on the saw.

Benny

 

[xalky]

I'm looking forward to your progress. That's a really nice saw.