Cheap Surface Grinder Vise Options

[intjonmiller]

Warning: I tend to over-analyze and write a lot. Terribly oversimplified version: What is the cheapest way to hold an item for surface grinding when the opposite side is not flat?

I inherited a surface grinder, as detailed in a vintage machinery post a while back. I don't have a mill and have only distant access to a lathe, so it's kind of silly as the first real metal machine, but I wasn't going to pass it up. It came with a great selection of grinding wheels, a permanent magnetic chuck, some angle plates, and some magnetic 1-2-4 blocks. And I've tuned it up, with guidance from this forum.

I have only played with it so far, grinding scrap for practice. Now I am wanting to use it to restore some vintage woodworking bench planes. But while the soles of the planes are nearly flat, the opposite sides are far from flat. Obviously I need to hold them in a vise somehow. I don't want to spend a lot on tooling for this machine right now, because getting at least a small mill is a higher priority for me. Is there a cheap option for a surface grinding vise that would be serviceable?

Regardless of the type of vise I end up using, I am picturing clamping it pretty tight and then tapping it around while indicating it as I run the bed in all directions, to get it as close to flat as possible before grinding. Then using the now-flattened sole to register against the known-square vise to flatten the sides. (I plan to use the planes on shooting boards, for those who are familiar, and thus the need for the sides to be square.)

I keep looking at those roughly $20 drill press vises and wondering if that might not be good enough. First grind the vise perfectly square then just clamp it in tight. But I've never used one of those (I have a cheap cross-slide vise for my drill press) so I have no idea if that's realistic or if they are far too flimsy/flexible. But we're talking about grinding, not milling, where a magnetic chuck is sufficient to hold workpieces with a flat surface, so maybe??

I would love to hear from both your experience and imagination/brainstorming, but please state which is which.

 

[T Bredehoft]

Brainstorming. Rather than grind it, I'd acquire a fair sized sheet of abrasive paper, grit to be determined. Place it (the abrasive sheet) grit up on a flat surface (table saw, pool table, whatever) and rub the base of the plane over the abrasive until it's all gray.
I would be concerned that however I held it on the grinder, it would move and blow up the wheel, bend the arbor, and destroy the grinder.

 

[chips&more]

I have a SG but can’t say I grab a vise to hold things in the machine to grind. I mostly just use the mag chuck and sometimes a sine plate, indexing fixture, miscellaneous tooling for special jobs and then maybe a vise. If the part to be held in the mag chuck is iffy, I do not hesitate to block it in place. I do not want the part to fly off the chuck! I would start your looking, at a tool makers vise...Dave.

 

[Bob Korves]

Setting up work in machines is an art and a skill as well as a science. You need to have a selection of useful stuff like 123 blocks, parallels, step blocks, vises, machinist jacks, mag plate, etc. Then you need to mount the work well enough to stay put while you machine it. You don't need more than what is required, but you must have a very good idea what that actually is. It is not in good taste to throw parts off machines while cutting on them. It is also not good for your health, or the machine's health. There is a learning curve to it as well. A surface grinder can be a very dangerous machine in the wrong hands. You could probably block your planes up and then block around them with other various stuff. Test the setup by pushing and pulling on it before starting the grinder. Always be really careful and be conservative with what you try, especially at first. It would really be good if you found a mentor who has lots of surface grinder experience to help get you going down the right paths...

 

[intjonmiller]

Brainstorming. Rather than grind it, I'd acquire a fair sized sheet of abrasive paper, grit to be determined. Place it (the abrasive sheet) grit up on a flat surface (table saw, pool table, whatever) and rub the base of the plane over the abrasive until it's all gray.

That is the usual approach. But that doesn't do anything to ensure that the sides are square to the sole. Might not be far enough off to worry about, but it seems like as long as I have a surface grinder I should put it to good use. I assume the manufacturers like Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley/Veritas have special jigs for grinding each model they make. I would rather spend money on my slowly growing hobby machinist gear and use that gear to fix up old planes than buy new ones. My ultimate goal is to eventually make my own with my own tools, from scratch. But that's a ways down the road.

Most guys do woodworking or metalworking. I'm in the group that can't pick just one.

 

[intjonmiller]

And now I notice your signature and see that you are in the same group.

 

[intjonmiller]

It would really be good if you found a mentor who has lots of surface grinder experience to help get you going down the right paths...

Agreed. How do I do that, exactly?

Every trade and craft I know of usually involves more time in setup than the work people initially expect to do. True in metal and wood, as well as photography (my day job), and so many others. I have the cheap, poorly designed but well-ground 1-2-3 blocks (4), and the magnetic 1-2-4 blocks (2), and a couple types of slotted angle plates. I have wondered about bolting through the angle plates to hold the planes, plus blocking to support underneath the ends, probably shimming the last bit with a wedge or similar. Maybe hot glue to keep it from sliding. And some duct tape, coat hangers, and chewing gum for good measure. But the more I think about all of that the more I think a vise would be better all around.

Part of me wants to just talk to the local trade schools and such and see if anyone wants to trade this (technically universal grinder, Covel #6) for a mill. But I know that most guys doing this have a lathe and a mill and no surface grinder, and I don't want to end up there either.

 

[pineyfolks]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-UNIVE...FIXTURE-NEW-/300876103862?hash=item460d9d00b6
Something like this may be useful to you.

 

[Bob Korves]

Agreed. How do I do that, exactly?

Every trade and craft I know of usually involves more time in setup than the work people initially expect to do. True in metal and wood, as well as photography (my day job), and so many others. I have the cheap, poorly designed but well-ground 1-2-3 blocks (4), and the magnetic 1-2-4 blocks (2), and a couple types of slotted angle plates. I have wondered about bolting through the angle plates to hold the planes, plus blocking to support underneath the ends, probably shimming the last bit with a wedge or similar. Maybe hot glue to keep it from sliding. And some duct tape, coat hangers, and chewing gum for good measure. But the more I think about all of that the more I think a vise would be better all around.

Part of me wants to just talk to the local trade schools and such and see if anyone wants to trade this (technically universal grinder, Covel #6) for a mill. But I know that most guys doing this have a lathe and a mill and no surface grinder, and I don't want to end up there either.

Well, here in Sacramento I noticed the distinct lack of social contact among hobby machinists. We are like hermits in our holes. That seems to be pretty common everywhere. So, when I saw a H-M member who lives in my area, I PM'd him and started with "Hi Neighbor!" and offered to get together to talk and share experiences, collaborate, help each other, use special tools, and mostly just talk the trade. We are now up to five machinists (all H-M members) in this non structured group and meet about once a month in one of our shops. It seems to be useful and fun. I have also met and collaborated with some of the YouTube machinists within driving range of here. Right now some other machinist friends and I are collaborating for getting our surface plates calibrated, saving some money by having them all calibrated and resurfaced at a common location, avoiding paying a large travel fee alone and also avoiding having to each pay a minimum charge per invoice.

A machinist vise and a mag chuck are the basics. Planes are not often very square when we start to work on them, and the sides flex. A vise alone is often not quite enough to hold them securely. It sounds like you have the right ideas in your head, so go forward. I see a lot of Utah locations under members' names, PM them and talk it up.

Or, you could always post a personal ad on Craigslist looking for a mentor. On second thought, maybe not... 8^)
-Bob Korves
p.s. I would love to have that Covel of yours!

 

[intjonmiller]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-UNIVE...FIXTURE-NEW-/300876103862?hash=item460d9d00b6
Something like this may be useful to you.

Interesting. Not quite what I had in mind but that does look like a very useful fixture.


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