Carbide Inserts

jonathan01

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Hey, I was just given an assortment of old, but mostly unused inserts. I am wondering what inserts can I use on my PM13x40 Chinese lathe.

I am still going through them trying to sort them in sizes and styles. I will also need to figure out what insert holders I will need. I mainly do right hand turning and facing, and cutoff and threading. I have some CNMG, CNMP TNMG, etc inserts, it looks like a good bit of the are .5" I.C and 0.375" I.C.

Thanks for any guidance yall can give me.
 
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Most of what the inserts will do is about what holder you put them in. If you are buying a holder (holders?) I would get something with a common (read, inexpensive) insert type. Something like a TNxx or WNxx. If you stick to the same size inserts (thickness, and IC), there are a lot of choices for different materials. Either the 1/2 or 3/8" inserts are probably fine for that machine, I would personally stick with the 3/8".

Here is the holder I have on my monarch, and it is _fantastic_.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=619-3865&PMPXNO=16752106&PARTPG=INLMK32
 
I am using a QCTP, that holds up to 5/8" bits, so that holder looks like it would be a good one for me too.

My main concern is how ridgid is my lathe. What insert can it handle?

I have a good bit of ( t) triangle, some, c type diamond, and a some (a) type inserts, also a good bit of grooving and or cutoff inserts.

Most have holes in the middle, but some don't.

I will be turning mostly stainless, how do I know what inserts are for what metal? Also, what about the rake angles?

I will look into more holders tomorrow, but it seems like the size of the tool holder determines the shape and size some what.

Sorry for all the questions, I am a newbie to machining, and especially inserts.

Thanks
 
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if you find buying insert holders is expensive like I have---Just find some old tool bits, grind the front down and silver solder your carbide inserts on at angle you want. I have a good supply of used and unused inserts also and you can resharpen them to last forever with a diamond stone. It also teaches you how easy it is to use your resources to the most advantage. Dave
 
The first leter just tells you the insert shape, which lets you know what the angle. There are all types. T is 60, W is 80, as is C. The nice thing about the W over the C is that you get 50% more edges on your inserts (3/6 vs 2/4). In general the wider the angle, the more abuse the insert will take. Another thing to consider is the tip radius. The larger the radius, the tougher the insert will be, but there is a minimum depth of cut you have to use (IIRC it is >= to the tip radius). If you don't have a lot of power/rigidity, probably best off with an insert that has a small radius. Of course, none of this has anything to do with the holder you get... which may seem confusing, and I don't know if I can do it justice, but I'll give it a go.

For cutting tools, there are a couple angles that people talk about (f you have tried grinding your own HSS tools, some of it may be familiar), relief, and rake (sometimes broken into side and back rake). Relief is the angle of the cutter below the cutting edge on a turning tool. This angle keeps the freshly cut material from rubbing on the cutter. Rake is the angle the top edge of the cutter makes with the horizon, and it makes the cutting edge more or less "keen".

In carbide inserts, there are three ways that you can get the right combination of these two angles; they can be ground into the insert itself, they can be machined into the holder, or it can be a combination of both. The most common way to get relief is to get it from the holder. These are "neutral" (second letter of the insert code is an N) inserts. If you place them face down on a table, the sides will be perpendicular to the table. If you fed them straight into the workpiece, there would be a lot of rubbing, and a lot of heat; bad times. To use these inserts the relief is built into the holder, specifically they hold the insert at an angle from horizontal (usually 7 degrees). The nice thing about neutral inserts is that you tend to be able to use both sides of the insert, so you get twice the number of edges out of an insert as a "positive" insert, for about the same price per insert.

So now we need rake. I'll focus on neutral holders again (because that's what I recommend). For really tough stuff, you can get flat inserts; 90 degree cutting edges. They are really tough, and good for hard things, but for softer material, they tend to just mash things around rather than cutting. The trick with rake and neutral inserts is in the chipbreaker. Chipbreakers are a trough ground into the top edge of the insert. Their main purpose is to break chips (hence the name), but they also effect edge geometry (they make the edge keener). This is really important for softer materials, in fact there are a lot of specialize aluminum inserts with really deep chipbreakers and very sharp ground edges.

So, the only things you need to figure out when starting out are the first two letters of the inserts you want to use, and the size. I recommend neutral inserts, you will have the most choices. For the shape, I recommend T, W, or C, as they are the most common, and you will have the best selection, lowest prices.

At that point you have your holders, and you have to find some inserts for your material. Take a look through the catalogs and find something recommended for stainless, and remember that the holder will take a wide variety of inserts. You can buy singles of a couple different types to try to see what works best for you, though it sounds like you have some random inserts, so give those a try, figure out what you like, and order more like those.

If you have stuff on hand you are going to have a hard time identifying the carbide grade unless they are marked. I wouldn't worry about it too much. They will cut, they just won't be optimal; when you run through those (assuming you don't have an unlimited supply of free inserts), you can worry about getting the "right" grade when you need to purchase more.
 
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The KBC catalog has a good variety of holders & lists what inserts are used. From what I've seen there appears to be a somewhat standardized labels. Dorian Tool & TMX (for example) make a MTFN R/L style holder for TNMG inserts.
 
I am having trouble finding a holder for 432 inserts with a 5/8" shank, do they make them. I found the 332 holders for tnmg and wnmg inserts in 5/8". I will go through the inserts again when I get home, but I think I have a lot more 432 inserts than 332. I also have a few smaller ones, and a few larger ones too. The brands are Iscar, Seco, Sumitomo, NTK, and some others.

Thanks again,
Jonathan
 
I did grind my hss 3/8 bit into a rh turning tool, so I know little bit about the angles. So, I would want holder that would give me side rake, top rake, and back rake?

Some of the packs still have stickers that I can read and some don't. Some of the inserts have stamped on them 835, AC 10, AC25, etc. Some of the stickers have that plus they have P25-P45, etc. along with a few other numbers.

By the time I have all this figured out, I will know a lot about inserts
 
Those "P" numbers are the standard grade info (see this page http://www.carbidedepot.com/pmk-chart.htm). Those look like semi-finishing/roughing inserts for steel. Probably good general purpose, not sure how well they will work on SS, but give em a go.

432 is a larger insert, you may have trouble finding a holder with a smaller shank; even on 332 inserts, the holders with 5/8" shanks are pretty uncommon. I have seen some people machine the shank down on larger inserts to make them work, though I have never done this myself.

Those all sound like good quality inserts, hope you got a good deal.
 
Here are some of the triangle inserts I have. The one on the left are 3/8" IC, and right are 1/5" IC. What is the one on the bottom left, Is it a better type of chip breaker?

Also, can a 32x insert fit in a 33x holder?

View attachment 51102
 
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