buying first lathe... opinions on TIDA TD4a

[Giorgio]

Hi Gang,

I have a line on a Tida TD4a 1024 and dont know if its worth going to go see
Late seventies vintage. Tida out of biz in the late 80s. Some say its the same as the 'Jet 1024 back then. $800 needs some work... see pics

...
owner saysThere is some backlash which you have to compensate for when using it, but it is built well and sturdy.

thoughts?

 

[November X-ray]

I know nothing about this brand of lathe and just judging from the pictures it appears to be a fairly sturdy looking lathe with reverse tumbler. If it comes with a fair amount of tooling it might be a really good deal. It also looks like it could use a little elbow grease to bring it back to good condition but I'm sure once you see it in person you will be able to tell much more about it. Check the feel of the spindle bearings, look closely at the ways, feel how the slides work. And then listen to what your gut says, because even if you buy a new import machine it will not be perfect!

Good Luck!

 

[george wilson]

My first decent lathe was a Jet 10-24. It was a very nice lathe,and with the belt drive would produce extremely smooth finishes. I recommend the lathe if it isn't worn out. The bed was hardened,so,likely wear is not a great issue unless the lathe was subjected to a lot of abrasive polishing,tool post grinding without covering the bed,etc. Backlash is not a big deal as you back up the slides PAST the backlash area,and then advance them forward to take the next cut. Any lathe will have some degree of backlash. Hopefully it is not SO excessive as to be a nuisance.

That lathe does look like the Jet. It has the steady and follower rests!!!! That model also has a very good range of threads,better than a LOT of other lathes. So do South bend 9" and 10" lathes. My 16" lathe has only about 1/2 the thread selections of this lathe. My Hardinge HLVH also has a smaller thread selection(though you can buy extra gears for $$$$$$$$$ to do other threads).

Yes,the lathe has power cross feeds.

The lathe has a threaded spindle,which makes it easy to make chuck backplates,and a faceplate,if necessary. I made many for mine when i didn't have money,and would buy cast iron blanks cheap.

 

[November X-ray]

It also appears to have power cross feed, I'd certainly consider this machine if it is not sloppy and worn out! Perhaps the owner will even take less, it cannot hurt to ask!

 

[Giorgio]

Wow, Thank you....Ok then I am arranging to get a closer, hands on, look at her.

It's seems beefier than what I can get new and if it comes with tooling I'll be impressed.

I'll be looking for pitting and slop but as a newbie I'm not quite sure I'll be able to detect sublet flaws. If the chuck falls off...well that won't get buy me.. Ha ha...but is there something specifically I am checking with my hands or simply ALL movements should still be smooth aside from any dusty grit that may have accumulated over the years.

I'll post my findings after the visit. If there is anything specific I should check for please advise.

Thank you very much for helping.

 

[Hawkeye]

Giorgio,

Your fingers can feel a difference or a movement of 0.001". Place a finger along any place where two parts come together, such as where the cross-slide rides on the carriage. Try moving the cross-slide at 90[SUP]o[/SUP] to the normal movement. If there is any slop, you'll feel the top piece move relative to the bottom piece.

Actually, you will likely feel some slight movement and even then, the gibs can be adjusted to take it out. What you really want to check is whether the amount of movement is the same at all positions along the cross-slide's travel. Crank it all the way toward you and test how much movement you can feel. Crank it to mid-position and test again. Then go to the end of travel and test again. If there is a lot more movement around the position it would be used in the most, when compared to the unused ends of travel, the ways may be worn.

Do this type of testing at any place where one part slides over another. If nothing else, it will show the seller you didn't just fall off the turnip truck. :thinking:

 

[george wilson]

Cross slide backlash could be caused by wear in the cross feed screw,wear in the cross feed nut, THE NUT COULD BE LOOSE. In the top of the cross slide,you can see the top of the bolt that holds the brass nut below. Crank the slide in and out,and see if the head of that bolt moves at all. A 4th. backlash could be that there is looseness in the crank handle region,where the nut that adjusts the snugness of the cross slide(which rides on thrust bearings in this lathe,a nice feature, needs to be tightened a bit. You need to take the balcrank handle off,remove the nut that holds the dials on,remove the dials,and inside you'll see another nut that tightens the cross feed screw against the thrust bearings. By the way,I like those balcrank handles. Most lathes these days do not have them. Balcrank is the name of a "balanced crank" handle patented in the 19th.C.. The ball is supposed to balance the handle so the handle doesn't revolve by itself from vibration. Most balcranks aren't properly balanced anyway,though.

More likely than anything is that the cross feed screw or nut has gotten worn. I have seen old lathes where the acme threads of the cross feed have gotten so worn,the threads look like knife blades rather than acme threads.

In this event,I'd use the lathe to turn a new cross feed screw,and attach it to the front end of the original cross feed screw,where there is a small gear for engaging the power feed gear coming from the apron. As for the nut,I have made Acme thread taps,but that may be beyond you as of yet. Backlash does exist in all screw adjusted lathes,though,and it really isn't a problem if you know how to deal with it,as I've mentioned.

This older lathe will have been made in TAIWAN,NOT CHINA,which is a BIG BOOST in quality.

I wish I hadn't sold my 1024,but I needed the money to put towards my 16" X 40". The 16" is a gear head lathe,which doesn't make as smooth a finish as a belt fed lathe(unless you have a super expensive lathe). Gear heads leave traces of the gears meshing on the surfaces you are turning. Plus,my 16" lathe doesn't have the range of threading that the 1024 had(though I can alter that by replacing gears.

P.S.: Your lathe has a carriage that you can put oil into,a great advantage. Don't overfill it,or the oil will overflow into the chip pan. You'll soon discover how much oil it takes. There may be no sight glass on that lathe for the carriage. I'm not sure if I see one. Mine didn't have one if I recall,but it's been since 1986.

 

[Giorgio]

Gentlemen, again, thank you for your input. I will do as advised here.

Perhaps its more pitted than worn? he said that it has sat for 25 years! I am concerned that surface rust will impede some movement and therefore testing.

Is it safe to assume that surface rust can be removed with power flap sanding disks and hand sanding?

All these threads per inch... If one needed metric threading is it available? ( perhaps I am looking to far ahead...chalk it up to enthusiasm)

Thanks again

G

 

[Giorgio]

Ok checked out the lathe last night. The gentlemen is noit a manchininst and has about 100 hours on it shaping plastic and aluminum. He had been furiously cleaning when i arrived and aside from an eight inch round blemish/nick in the main bed way no other blemishes were of note,. the blemish did not impede any smooth movenments.
LOL The guy is aware that i am supported by the collective experience of The Hobby Machinists forum and their findings are binding ha ha...i think his story is straight and was truly a gentlemen.


Pros:

• It runs.
• Bed ways were clean, no rust, and smooth...
• all mating surfaces were tight... I could not feel any play at any of the positions
• Motor is 14.4 amp
• Spindle hole is 1 3/8
• Has Power cross feed
• Lots of places to oil
• lead screw threads were uniform from end to end.
• Its heavy for a smallish lathe 260KGs

Cons:

• Backlash at all three balcranks. (did not get to see the threads for the cross feed slides) see pics
• Belts are worn
• Noisy gearbox ( gent says that's due to the straight cut gears)
• Moving it....Weighs 260kgs!!! That will be a pro but right now it's been in his basement for 25 years and there been a few renos built up around it ....inside and out...bit of a maze and may require a pros?

If the lead screw threads were any indication of wear I am hoping that the cross feed threads for the tool slider and cross feed slider are in as good a shape..... But the back lash is the most concerning to me right now

Here a a couple of pics of how much differences there are before the crank engages the slides. Note the difference in the calibrated markers on the balcranks.

how bad is it? and what can be done?!

(hope the pics are here and clear enough)

 

[joesmith]

I would want to inspect the gears for broken teeth or chips. Try the gears in different selections If the noise level changes then look for a damaged gear. While not perfect the amount of lash shown in the p;ics is ok for this class of manual lathe. As mentioned the lash can be worked around by backing the screw more than the lash and turning it back. I worry about lash when almost a full turn of the wheel is required.

Sounds like a reasonable deal. Location would further define that. In Texas it would sell quickly. Further north there are many more oppurtunities and the deal not so good.

Joe