Butterfly Filer Vs Die Filer

[Susan_in_SF]

Hi,
I couldn't find a simple answer off Google, so I'd thought I'd ask here. I know that "Butterfly" was a brand for a filier, and I know some people will use the terms, "Butterfly" and "Die", interchangeably.

Is a Butterfly filier the same as a die filer? If not what are the differences?

I think Butterfly filers don't have overarms from the few pics I've seen, but maybe I am mistaken.

My tool hoarding self, as you can tell, is craving a die filier, lol.

Thanks guys!

 

[westsailpat]

Well from what I can tell Butterfly was the manufacture's name for the machine http://machinisttoolslathe.com/2018...t-butterfly-bench-top-die-filer-file-machine/ Many beers ago when I worked for Rockwell we had a die filer , it looked like a band saw and there were flie segments attached to the blade . My guess to your question is the Butterfly filer is the type that has the single file and not the continuous band of blades . If I had the room I'd get one because it's cool .

 

[Susan_in_SF]

Well from what I can tell Butterfly was the manufacture's name for the machine http://machinisttoolslathe.com/2018...t-butterfly-bench-top-die-filer-file-machine/ Many beers ago when I worked for Rockwell we had a die filer , it looked like a band saw and there were flie segments attached to the blade . My guess to your question is the Butterfly filer is the type that has the single file and not the continuous band of blades . If I had the room I'd get one because it's cool .

Thanks westsailpat,
I am wanting one because, yes, it is cool, and also since I would like to make small tools (or at least, that's my excuse).
I live to visit older machinists. One such machinist, Neil, showed me his die filer and told me how important it was to have such a tool. I remember him mentionin the word, "butterfly," a few times. However my couple hours with him was like a massive crash course in machining stuff. He even brought to my attention the importance of having a good lead hammer. I gave Neil a visit since he lived not too far from my old high school best friend in Arizona.
Neil sells small tools at: https://www.neilsniche.com. It's pretty cool in case anyone wants to check it out. I bought his "tailstock tap/die holder," and became friends with him after emailing him and complementing the instruction video he made.
Anyways, I didn't want to bother him with a phone call about this, and I like things in writing since my middle aged memory makes me damn near senile, lol.
One thing I have to question, westsailpat, is the term you used, "blade." Is it common to refer to files as blades? If not, your quote,

"My guess to your question is the Butterfly filer is the type that has the single file and not the continuous band of blades."

can be confused with a scroll saw, right?

Thanks

 

[westsailpat]

OK you do realize who you are talking to here right ? I don't even remember what I had for breakfast LOL . I went to Neils site , cool stuff . When I used the term blade , for lack of a better term I just meant that the blade was the carrier for the file segments . I forget how they were attached . They had to go around the wheels so they were in segments , when they came down the flat they had no gap . I messed up instead of saying band of blades I should have said band of file segments . Mark .

 

[benmychree]

I used (once) a die filer attachment on a 24" DoAll bandsaw, just like is described above, at Kaiser steel in Napa, Ca. The blade carrier was like a saw blade with no teeth, and the file segments were attached firmly at the leading edge and with a springy link further back, there was a grooved guide that attached in place of the regular blade guide, or maybe in addition to it, which backed up and guided the segments; you were working radially to the wheels when filing. These particular files were worn out, and the experiment was quickly abandoned.

 

[dlane]

This is a converted band filer to a band saw.

This is the guy that converted it, it’s a good saw now

 

[CluelessNewB]

Harvey Manufacturing Corp. made the "Butterfly" die filer but others made similar machines like Oliver Instrument Co. and All American Tool & Mfg. Co.

Martin Model & Pattern makes a kit and I believe there used to be at least one other available in kit form but they might be defunct.

 

[projectnut]

I was looking to find or make a die filer several years ago. There were several brands and models available, unfortunately everyone selling them thought they were worth their weight in gold. I decided to try and find a scroll saw that could be converted. I was quite surprised to find in the 1940's and 50's Delta made a model 40-440 scroll saw that had a die filer attachment.

Here's what the scroll saw looks like:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELTA-SCRO...551526?hash=item23ad9c3766:g:GdcAAOSwTJtb1mia

As for the Harvey Butterfly it could be purchased with or without the overarm. There is currently one available on eBay with the overarm.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Filer-Harv...=item41f12abd6f:g:J0wAAOSwcLxYGl6P:rk:33:pf:0

I was able to find a good example of a Delta 40-440 at a local used tool vendor. I spent a few dollars bringing it back to original condition and now have a scroll saw/die filer. The truth be known it's gotten far more use as a scroll saw than a die filer. Also be aware that files for die filing machines ( sometimes called parallel machine files) are getting more scarce and quite expensive for what they are. There is currently a vendor on eBay asking $14.99 per file. When I was stocking up most styles were less than $1.00 per copy. The tooth orientation is the opposite of a hand file. The teeth cut when the mounting/handle end is pulled rather than pushed.

As a side note the price of the die filer I linked to is nearly the same as it was when I was looking. The price of the scroll saw is nearly triple what I paid.

 

[Downunder Bob]

when I was an apprentice early 60's we had a couple of die filers in the toolroom, and although we did have a few files that were made for it we often made our own because they were too expensive to buy, especially special profiles, We would just shape the ends on a grinder to fit tha holders and then go for it, but they were always in use.

 

[C-Bag]

I was looking to find or make a die filer several years ago. There were several brands and models available, unfortunately everyone selling them thought they were worth their weight in gold. I decided to try and find a scroll saw that could be converted. I was quite surprised to find in the 1940's and 50's Delta made a model 40-440 scroll saw that had a die filer attachment.

Here's what the scroll saw looks like:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELTA-SCRO...551526?hash=item23ad9c3766:g:GdcAAOSwTJtb1mia

As for the Harvey Butterfly it could be purchased with or without the overarm. There is currently one available on eBay with the overarm.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Filer-Harv...=item41f12abd6f:g:J0wAAOSwcLxYGl6P:rk:33:pf:0

I was able to find a good example of a Delta 40-440 at a local used tool vendor. I spent a few dollars bringing it back to original condition and now have a scroll saw/die filer. The truth be known it's gotten far more use as a scroll saw than a die filer. Also be aware that files for die filing machines ( sometimes called parallel machine files) are getting more scarce and quite expensive for what they are. There is currently a vendor on eBay asking $14.99 per file. When I was stocking up most styles were less than $1.00 per copy. The tooth orientation is the opposite of a hand file. The teeth cut when the mounting/handle end is pulled rather than pushed.

As a side note the price of the die filer I linked to is nearly the same as it was when I was looking. The price of the scroll saw is nearly triple what I paid.

A couple of years ago a mod of a scroll saw to die filer was posted on another site and I thought that to be a possibly useful tool as I don't do much in wood. I see a lot of old cast iron scroll saw's on CL for <$100, sometimes as low as $30. Of course it's missing like the motor for that price, but no biggie as it would seem these would be a prime candidate for a treadmill motor. But with the constant reminder you can't take much stock off with a die filer and after watching This Old Tony's vid on his dream come true of this really high end die filer I wonder what everybody uses these for? I get its terminally cool but since everybody's focus is different, and I don't do any die work, are they good for like gun work or? Just curious.......