Atlas/Craftsman Lathe Motor and Countershaft Pulleys

[kcoffield]

I converted my 12” bench top lathe to a under drive cabinet model, and mentioned in my intro and refurb thread here:

New Caretaker of Two 12” Craftsman Lathes

Hi all, first post here. I’m the new caretaker of two 12” Craftsman lathes, one with a 42” bed and the other 54”. Though they recently came into my possession they are well known to me. The 42 is model 101.07403 number SN 16014 and the 54 is model 101.07403 SN 22500. The only place I’ve found...

www.hobby-machinist.com

…when I bought the lathe cabinet surplus, I got everything except the 2-step countershaft and motor pulley. Seems the folks on eBay think the large pulley is worth $150 and the motor pulley $60-$70. With shipping that would be $260+ and that aint happenin for a couple pulleys. I looked/watched for 3-4 months and made offers but no dice so I decided, screw it……..I’ll make them…..it’ll be a good first project to commission the lathe. I didn’t have any suitable stock but do have a home foundry and do some lost foam casting which makes the stock essentially free and saves machining time so I made some lost foam patterns for pulley blanks on my pin router.



Here are the resulting castings.



There is a thread on the casting project is here. You may have to join the forum to view the pictures.

Lathe Motor and Countershaft Pulleys

As part of the lathe restoration project I started here, http://forums.thehomefoundry.org/index.php?threads/dro-mount-for-lathe-restoration.1397/ and...

forums.thehomefoundry.org

….anyway, the castings are designed to be about .060” material rich in the OD, faces, and grooves. Not quite sure how I will machine the large pulley. I’m thinking chuck on the largest OD with small step outward, bore the shaft, machine what features I can, remove the pulley, make an arbor and press it into the shaft bore, re-chuck the pulley on the arbor, machine the last/larger groove and face. Sound reasonable?

The odd thing about this whole endeavor, I couldn’t justify paying the eBay prices for these pulleys but on the other hand, I also couldn’t justify selling the ones I made for the prices being asked eBay…..just stubborn I guess.

Best,
Kelly

 

[markba633csi]

Beautiful castings, and your proposed machining procedure sounds reasonable
-Mark

 

[Bi11Hudson]

The odd thing about this whole endeavor, I couldn’t justify paying the eBay prices for these pulleys but on the other hand, I also couldn’t justify selling the ones I made for the prices being asked eBay…..just stubborn I guess.
Best,
Kelly

I quite agree, about 125% worth. The disturbing significant part of the whole situation is the amount of trouble effort you went through to create the sheaves from "scratch" while the ones on eBay are used and the only effort the seller went to was to remove the assembly from a broken machine and clean things up a bit. There was no real effort on their part, nothing like what it takes to make one from nothing.

There are many variables regarding the pricing, several of which get into my "political perspectives" so I can't really go into them here. I'm a "radical liberterian" for lack of a better description. When I went to sea in the late '60s, a pack of Camels was $0.13, 13 cents. My income never rose as fast or as far as that pack of cigarettes.

The value of your pulleys falls into the same catagory. The best analogy I have found is by Rob't Heinlein where he compares prices then and now to a loaf of bread. That is the bottom line, something to eat. In my childhood, that loaf of bread was 12 cents at the grocery. That was then. . . By the time I had enlisted, it was up to near 20 cents. A different location, granted. But "used" bread at the day old store was 10 cents a loaf so we got by.

I could preach for hours on the subject, so I best leave now. Just remember, the eBay seller is a salesman at heart. They're out to make a profit, from their perspective. The true value of what they sell is irrelevent to them.

.

 

[kcoffield]

Just remember, the eBay seller is a salesman at heart. They're out to make a profit, from their perspective.

I don't necessarily have any problem with them making a profit, but if the part sits there for a year and doesn't sell I'd say it's overpriced and they will make no profit because it wont sell. To me it's just too high a percentage of the value of the lathe to spend on what it is.......a pulley.

There was no real effort on their part, nothing like what it takes to make one from nothing.

There is a great level of satisfaction in making something from nothing......because you can and have the skill too and not always to just make a buck at it. Someone has to add value to the economy......we can't all be doctors lawyers, and banker......LOL!

..........but I still have to successfully machine them so the last chapter has not been completed!

Best,
Kelly

 

[wa5cab]

The "true value" of anything is what it costs to make plus a markup that will allow the seller to stay in the business of making and selling widgets. It is an unfortunate fact of life that too many buyers think that too many sellers are charging too many dollars for whatever it is that they (the buyers) want to buy from them (the sellers).

But if a potential buyer elects instead to make the mystical part instead of buying it but wouldn't be willing to make and sell the parts for the original asking price, then there probably wasn't anything wrong with the original asking price.

The castings do look nice. Good luck with finishing them.

 

[chippermat]

That's pretty dang cool, good job and thanks for sharing. Report back on how you finish machine them, if you would please.

 

[kcoffield]

But if a potential buyer elects instead to make the mystical part instead of buying it but wouldn't be willing to make and sell the parts for the original asking price, then there probably wasn't anything wrong with the original asking price.

So true, except they never sell, but the usual reason for make versus buy is I have the time but not the money.......in my case I'm just cheap and I can!

Best,
Kelly

 

[JPMacG]

The original large counter-shaft pulley on my lathe wobbled. I purchased a used pulley on eBay for around $70 and, no surprise, it wobbled too. Then I bored out and bushed the original pulley, but did not have a good alignment reference, so the bushed pulley also wobbled. My 12-inch Atlas is not large enough to cut the outer diameter so I can't make one myself from plate. I gave up and decided to live with some wobble.

If anyone offered a well-machined replacement pulley I would be interested. I think Atlas's large old die cast pulleys must develop warp over the years.

 

[kcoffield]

The original large counter-shaft pulley on my lathe wobbled. I purchased a used pulley on eBay for around $70 and, no surprise, it wobbled too

Funny you should mention that because that pulley I borrowed from the other lathe that I show mounted in this post wobbles too. I haven't put a dial on it but you can actually see it and I'm guessing maybe .015"++ each side of the center line. I think the noise is caused by the run out bouncing the hub back and forth off the bearing/hub face. Very annoying because when I first fired up the refurb, it was very quiet except for that lower countershaft in the cabinet with the wobbly pulley. Then I went to the other Craftsman lathe I have and took a close look there and same thing. These pulleys have the classic "S" shaped spoke which is supposed to be a superior design for cast spokes but they may be more easily susceptible to damage.

My 12-inch Atlas is not large enough to cut the outer diameter so I can't make one myself from plate.

Hope you're wrong about that. I thought I could hang a tool in a boring bar on the outboard side of my AXA tool post, angle the compound and cut the 17 degree groove........if not I'll be getting out my begging bowl. But, if that scheme works, my first move will be to bore the pulley, and then mount it on an arbor to machine the other features so should run quiet & true......wouldn't you think?

I gave up and decided to live with some wobble

Never give in!

Best,
Kelly

 

[RandyMcNally]

Hi Kelly (@kcoffield),

That’s very impressive!

Please let me know if you change your mind about making a countershaft pulley to sell. I pulled a bozo move and broke mine this week.

I’m finding what you found: $100 used on ebay. Or little machine shop has the aluminum redesign for $150, I believe. I haven’t ordered anything yet because I’m waiting to call Clausing on Monday. I’ll be surprised if they have any cast parts in stock, but it’s worth a phone call.

My lathe is an Atlas 10F with horizontal countershaft, but I believe the countershaft pulley is identical to the Craftsman 12”. Oddly, the Atlas parts list I have labels it a 560-060, but my pulley has the same part number from a Craftsman 12” parts list I have: 9-427