Atlas 10 questions regarding chuck and runout

oldschoolcane

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I have progressed to the point of trying to do some projects on my reconditioned Atlas 10 lathe. Having some early issues, when I put aluminum rod into the chuck it appears to be noticeably out of alignment? What could be happening here,the rod appears to be straight - I tried this with a new drill bit and got the same result? What could be happening here, any ideas on what could be going on with the lathe?
Thank you,

Tim
 

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Don't expect that set of chuck jaws to hold anything straight within close limits, they are made for holding large diameter parts within the large steps.
 
you may be experiencing a phenomenon known as runout
3 jaw chucks rarely run below .003" runout ( a set tru chuck would be the exception)
this usually is not an issue as the runout will be cancelled as the piece is reduced in diameter
in other words, the turned piece is true to the central axis of the headstock
even if you had .050" runout and reduced the diameter by .035", you would still (theoretically) have a perfectly cylindrical feature true to the axis.


secondary to that,
if the jaws were removed, and somehow not inserted in the correct timing, or in the incorrect slot, the zone in which the work is held is no longer in the center of the chuck. it has been offset by the incorrect positioning of one or more of the jaws in relation to the scroll that drives them.
if the jaws don't meet together in the center of the chuck, repositioning may be necessary
 
First, Mike is correct. If you look at the face of the chuck near the slots that the jaws run in, you should see the numbers 1, 2 or 3 stamped in the face of the chuck and on the side of each jaw. If the numbers on the chuck don't match the numbers on the jaws, you need to back out the jaws until they are all free of the scroll, remove them from the chuck, and then starting with jaw #1 in slot #1, load jaw #1 into slot #1 and tighten the scroll until j #1 is captured. Then rotate the chuck to bring slot #2 near 12:00 o'clock, slide jaw #2 into it and rotate the scroll enough to capture jaw #2. Then do #3.

Second, although the runout should still have been small, you don't have the right set of jaws installed for working on something as small as that rod. The correct set of jaws will look like the set in your photo but turned around so that the longest jaw step is nearer the center than the other two steps on each jaw.
 
And if you do not have the other set of jaws, you are going to have to buy another 3-jaw chuck.
 
On older machines, I have found the chuck body and the jaws to be unreadable or non-existant for registration numbers. I usually, even when I can read the numbers, try Jaw 1 in each of the slots with 2 and 3 following. Using a test bar from a printer spool, check for runout. When I've IDed the lowest runout, mark the chuck body and jaws with my own method.

I have found even new chucks that weren't quite as "true" as they could be. Most "bargain" brands, especially out of China, aren't checked that close before they are marked. With a 3 jaw scroll chuck, having zero runout is rare for any given setting. Find the closest size to your "usual" work and measure from there. For hobby work, close is good enough. Just how close is a very personal matter. For professional work, where the higher cost can be justified, a good quality or even a "Set True" can be justified.

FWIW, I have a Craftsman 101.27440, a 12 inch version of the same machine. Each of several chucks is "loose" to some extent. If the jub requires close tolerances, I use a 4 jaw independent. If the OD is going to be cut down, it's a moot issue. Any part made where the OD has to be cut will be concentric as long as it remains chucked.

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I sure appreciate everyone's help and advice, I looked over the chuck and I can see the numbers on the chuck but not on the jaws? This chuck has had some pretty hard use and I think even the wear showing up on the jaws may be a factor also, the jaws do appear to come together correctly. I am starting to understand that some runout may not matter once the project is complete. The type of work I want to do on the lathe will be pretty limited to 1/4 to 1/2 light metal, should I try and find a new chuck or another older version to fit onto the lathe? I just need a chuck that fits the smaller work and the type of projects I want to do on it. Any thoughts about what chuck to look for and possible suppliers?
 
The mainland Chinese chucks would be the cheapest but you need to watch out for quality control problems. If you can afford it, something like a Pratt-Burnerd would be a much better choice but pricey
I have heard good things about Sanou chucks, not sure if they are Chinese or Taiwan made
-Mark
 
OK. If you can still read the numbers for the slots on the chuck face, I think that I can tell you how to ID the jaw numbers.

Stand the jaws on the bench or table in front of you with the interrupted threads up and the short Vee gripping surfaces nearest to you. The thread nearest to you will also be nearest to the bench surface. The "first" thread is defined as the first one to engage the scroll when installing the jaws. The jaw with the first interrupted thread nearest to the short Vee gripping surface and nearest to you is #1. The one with the first thread farthest from you and farthest from the Vee is #3. And the other one is #2.

The reason not to use the outside set of jaws (that are apparently all that you have) all the time is that if you are not careful, you may run the compound into the chuck jaws before before the cut is finshed
 
Stand the jaws on the bench or table in front of you with the interrupted threads up and the short Vee gripping surfaces nearest to you. The thread nearest to you will also be nearest to the bench surface. The "first" thread is defined as the first one to engage the scroll when installing the jaws. The jaw with the first interrupted thread nearest to the short Vee gripping surface and nearest to you is #1. The one with the first thread farthest from you and farthest from the Vee is #3. And the other one is #2.
Good advice, but. . . There is an "old school" designation for chuck jaws being that what you have was called "lathe" jaws and the reverse was called a "drill" chuck. That's a very old designation from old books and I'm sure has been replaced by "inside" and "outside" gripping. Now that I've confused you a little, let's get even more so.

There are chucks, rare but. . . , that are both inside and outside gripping. Take the jaws out and look at the back side where they connect with the "scroll". They will be slightly curved to mate with the scroll. If they are curved on both sides, no that's not a good description. . . If the jaw teeth form an oval on the back, a "truncated" oval, they may be inserted in either direction. Number 1 and 3 are swapped, based on the position of the teeth. Since the chuck body is numbered and the jaws are not, and it is obviously a very old chuck, it is possible that you have lucked into this type of chuck. The style was rare for even on old machines, but did exist. Sold for "hobby" level machines. . . The largest I have ever seen is a 5 inch chuck. I have a 3 inch that has the reversible jaws, so I know they did exist. You might get lucky. . . If you have managed to acquire a reversible jaw chuck, up front I will offer to buy you a new chuck, with both sets of jaws, in exchange for your old one. Not a fancy one mind you, just something usable to a beginner.

A quick way to check for this style of chuck is to try to insert a jaw "backwards". Any one, if it won't get far enough for the second it isn't a reversable jaw. Just turning the key by hand lightly, do not use any force. If you do have a reversible jaw chuck, the jaws can be determined by setting them on a bench with the long jaw away from you so that they are tilted toward you. There will be a slight offset in the teeth. Set them in order so that there is a slight progression from one to the next. The one closest to you is number 1 for "lathe" usage. For "drill" usage, swap number 1 and 3. The slight progression is still there, just in the opposite direction.

One other point, not just for reversible chucks but for any. The teeth closest to the end of insertion will be number one. Try the set in each slot, one at a time of course. Chuck up a fairly smooth rod. I have a bar from an old printer, a piece of drill rod would do better. Run it around by hand to measure runout. When you have determined the best (lowest) runout, mark the jaws to match the chuck. Slow and methodical will pay off in the long run.
This chuck has had some pretty hard use and I think even the wear showing up on the jaws may be a factor also, the jaws do appear to come together correctly.
Checking by eye is not sufficient. The ideal target is less than a thou. Realisticly, with an older chuck, a few thou is good. Try all three positions and ID the jaws to the best (lowest) runout, matching the numbers on the chuck body. Lining up visually means you have the jaws in proper sequence. The runout should be measured with some type of indicator. The difference cannot be seen by eye, unless you have very sharp vision. There are times when the human eye can resolve a half thou, this is not one of those times.

The nature of the closing mechanism, the scroll and teeth, will vary based on the diameter of the work. The optimum closure to measure is near the normal working area that fits what you normally do. If you use a 1/2 inch drill as a test bar, your measurement would be most accurate at that 1/2 inch. Smaller or greater diameters will tend to drift away from optimal from there. But as noted, if the OD of the work has to be sized, the whole issue is moot.

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