Always breaking parting tools

taiwanluthiers

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I don't know why, but I break parting tools a lot. When I use carbide parting tools it would cut fine until it got to the center, then it just snaps. I don't have this problem with HSS parting tools however.... Is this a rigidity issue?
 
Could be. A picture of your setup would help. Without knowing details, I can give you some general info that I use when parting.

I struggled with parting and tool breakage for a while until I figured out what my particular lathe (Atlas TH42) needed and developed my personal technique for it. Parting is nearly as easy as turning for me now. I used to dread parting, now it's just another milling process .I wouldn't call it fun, but it is satisfying to make a nice clean part with minimal fuss and muss..

Too much tool stick out makes it more "flexible" and can result in poor cutting, jamming, chattering or breakage. When I part, I make sure the parting tool is just long enough to part the work piece and no longer. Keeps it as rigid as possible. If I'm parting a large diameter, I'll often do it in stages so I can make most of the cut with the least mount of stick out. It keeps the tool as rigid as possible for most of the cut and you only have to risk a lot of stick out at the very end of the cut. Be aware that if you do it this way, you have to readjust your on center because most parting tools hold the cutter on an angle. As you extend the cutter, it tends to raise the cutting point up and takes it off "on center". That's for most HHS cutters holders, carbide insert cutters are fixed by the tool holder height and maximum stick out is a physical limitation of the design of the tooling itself.

I find I sometimes need to change my rpm as the tool penetrates larger items because SFM changes as the part diameter is reduced while cutting. That's mostly for large pieces though. Small pieces I can just set the RPM and part it off.

I find when I'm close to the final cut, I need to slow my feed rate down as when the part is very small in diameter, I find it's very prone to bend from too much pressure from the cutter head and the result is a jam or worse.

One center is very important. Too high it doesn't cut right (kind of slips and skids instead of making proper chips). Too low and I find it tends to bind and jam, resulting in the piece "walking up" and on-top-of the cutter edge, rips the piece sideways in the chuck or (worst case scenario) snaps the cutter.

Lubrication is also very important when parting. Lots of it and all the time.

Make sure every axis you are not moving is locked down tight.

Make sure your cutter is perfectly perpendicular to the piece. Even a touch off tends to side load the cutter and make wider than expected cuts, or you end up with a cut that isn't "square". Side loading also risks breakage.

If you see anything in your set up move that shouldn't move in any way when parting...... STOP!

Go back over your rig and find out why something moved because that is an instant recipe for disaster. For your lathe, your tooling, your part and maybe even yourself.

I find HHS cutters easier to part with compared to carbide inserts. Not sure why, it's just how it works for me. It might be the fact that HSS will have a little more "give" compared to carbide tools, which are more prone to breakage instead of allowing a tiny bit of flex that might save a HSS cutter. Not sure on that one, just guessing.

Last thing I will leave you with is make Sure your tool post and fixture is a rigid as possible. I used to put my cut off tooling directly on the top compound slide on my Atlas. My whole world changed when I made a rigid Plinth to mount the parting tool on instead of the top compound.
 
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Mine is also brittle. Even if I think I have the tip exact on centre, it can "bump". I think that what happens is that when the cut is deep enough so as to weaken the remaining (thin) bit, the end of the part can run out some, and slightly wobble. Then the cut surface can come together, and "clamp" onto the tool in much the same way a circular saw blade in wood will "grab" if the piece being cut "droops" a bit. Having a nicely set up tailstock centre support, and whatever other support can be had might help some. HSS steel will hang onto itself, and resist a break way better than carbide. HSS is very tough. Carbide is not.

There is all the wisdom from the folk who take off the compound, and bolt on a fixed solid toolpost mounting. I mean Robin Renzetti, and Stefan Gotteswinter, and Kent VanderVelden. They only bring out the compound when they do need what it does.
--> Kent VanderVelden
--> Stefan Gotteswinter + More Stefan Toolpost
--> Robin Renzetti
--> Warco WM180 SOLID Tool Post UPGRADE

They clearly have all been referring to each other's videos, and they do acknowledge when they do. There are some shots of quite impressive parting operations, though in the context of no more chatter vibration onset. Regardless of how good they are, I think the tool will still snap off if the end wobbles to snatch on the carbide, but I was trying to eliminate causes, and make it as good as I could.

I have purchased the cast semi-steel chunk to make my own solid post, but not yet got around to doing it. For now, I just part as deep as I dare, and then take the last bit through with a hacksaw. I confess, sometimes, if it's only small, I just go for the hacksaw all the way.
 
So my question is, what rpm should I part at? I never auto feed parting tools because I can't trust it...
 
Turn slow, feed hard is my general rule of thumb. As long as you're getting nice curls coming off the tool you're doing fine. As for breaking carbide at the very end, it's most likely what others said, your work is riding up on the tool at the end and then springing back, over loading the tip. Best fix for that is to use HSS:)
 
Two possibilities base on my experience :

1) chips accumulating in the slot causing jamming.
2) the tip of the tool is lower than the center of rotation by too much causing the workpiece to roll onto the top of the tool. This occurs more easily on grabby materials like brass. I have experienced the insert being pulled out instead of breaking. Switching to inserts with smaller rake angle solved the problem.

Carbide tools are good for lazy people like me but they require the operator to be more careful.
 
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So my question is, what rpm should I part at? I never auto feed parting tools because I can't trust it...
That's not a straight up answer. It changes with materials, cutters, diameters, etc.

It's usually a calculated speed based on these factors, but I'm nearly always using back gear for cutting as it requires a lot of torque. I usually just throw the lathe in to back gears if I'm going to part, as I usually need to anyways. It's just too easy to stall the lathe if it's not in back gears when parting.

As a general rule of thumb, I calculate the SFM/RPM I need to turn a part and then use about 60% of that number to set my parting RPM.

I will adjust that number as I see what actually is happening at the cutting face. Higher or lower as needed.

I never power feed when parting. I control feed based on what I see happening at the cutting face. I would wager most home setups are not big enough or rigid enough to power feed when parting.

One point I will add is that as a larger piece is close to being parted, it may sag under it's own weight. This can "pinch" the cutter and possibly result in jamming, or at least grabbing. That's probably why most HSS cut off tooling has a wider cutting edge supported by a thinner shank below it:

404-1668b_15.jpg
Gives it a little extra clearance should the part sag and reduces the tendency to pinch the tool and jam.
 
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I am using a Victor 1630 lathe, I figure if that Abom guy could do it, so could I....
 
I am using a Victor 1630 lathe, I figure if that Abom guy could do it, so could I....
It's not that simple. The tool is about 35% of the success. The remaining 65% is the operator.

A good operator can make a crappy machine turn out good work, but a crappy operator cannot make a good machine turn out good work.

It's along the same lines as what we used to say when I was in the military: the rifle is the tool, the soldier is the weapon.

Keep reading and refining your processes. You'll get there. It took about a year of frustration until it all came together and parting became easier for me.

Quick blurb on the basics:

 
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Could be. A picture of your setup would help. Without knowing details, I can give you some general info that I use when parting.

I struggled with parting and tool breakage for a while until I figured out what my particular lathe (Atlas TH42) needed and developed my personal technique for it. Parting is nearly as easy as turning for me now. I used to dread parting, now it's just another milling process .I wouldn't call it fun, but it is satisfying to make a nice clean part with minimal fuss and muss..

Too much tool stick out makes it more "flexible" and can result in poor cutting, jamming, chattering or breakage. When I part, I make sure the parting tool is just long enough to part the work piece and no longer. Keeps it as rigid as possible. If I'm parting a large diameter, I'll often do it in stages so I can make most of the cut with the least mount of stick out. It keeps the tool as rigid as possible for most of the cut and you only have to risk a lot of stick out at the very end of the cut. Be aware that if you do it this way, you have to readjust your on center because most parting tools hold the cutter on an angle. As you extend the cutter, it tends to raise the cutting point up and takes it off "on center". That's for most HHS cutters holders, carbide insert cutters are fixed by the tool holder height and maximum stick out is a physical limitation of the design of the tooling itself.

I find I sometimes need to change my rpm as the tool penetrates larger items because SFM changes as the part diameter is reduced while cutting. That's mostly for large pieces though. Small pieces I can just set the RPM and part it off.

I find when I'm close to the final cut, I need to slow my feed rate down as when the part is very small in diameter, I find it's very prone to bend from too much pressure from the cutter head and the result is a jam or worse.

One center is very important. Too high it doesn't cut right (kind of slips and skids instead of making proper chips). Too low and I find it tends to bind and jam, resulting in the piece "walking up" and on-top-of the cutter edge, rips the piece sideways in the chuck or (worst case scenario) snaps the cutter.

Lubrication is also very important when parting. Lots of it and all the time.

Make sure every axis you are not moving is locked down tight.

Make sure your cutter is perfectly perpendicular to the piece. Even a touch off tends to side load the cutter and make wider than expected cuts, or you end up with a cut that isn't "square". Side loading also risks breakage.

If you see anything in your set up move that shouldn't move in any way when parting...... STOP!

Go back over your rig and find out why something moved because that is an instant recipe for disaster. For your lathe, your tooling, your part and maybe even yourself.

I find HHS cutters easier to part with compared to carbide inserts. Not sure why, it's just how it works for me. It might be the fact that HSS will have a little more "give" compared to carbide tools, which are more prone to breakage instead of allowing a tiny bit of flex that might save a HSS cutter. Not sure on that one, just guessing.

Last thing I will leave you with is make Sure your tool post and fixture is a rigid as possible. I used to put my cut off tooling directly on the top compound slide on my Atlas. My whole world changed when I made a rigid Plinth to mount the parting tool on instead of the top compound.
This is great. I have not tried using a parting tool... too afraid to do so for now... will build up courage to give it a try...
 
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