Air Dryer?

bpimm

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In my other thread "I need a new compressor" I saw several mentions of air dryers and the search function didn't get me much info, I'd like to see and hear about your air dryer systems. In the past I have used an air conditioning condenser mounted on a box fan for this purpose but with the higher volume this compressor will deliver I don't think that the air conditioning condenser will be anywhere close to handling the CFM capacity of the compressor.

Thanks for any and all ideas.

Brian
 
20131104_113946_zps519cbd4f.jpg
http://www.harborfreight.com/compressed-air-dryer-40211.html
This is the air dryer i use. It comes from harbor freight. I only use it when I'm sandblasting, spray painting or running my plasma table. I paid less than that for it with a 25% off coupon. They don't have it in the stores, or at least not the ones in my area. It works good. It's good for 21cfm.

Some guys have made their own with some large pipe run along the concrete floor. The coolness of the concrete acts as the cooler to make the moisture condense inside the walls of the pipe You have to pitch the pipe and put a drain at the end to periodically drain it.

It all depends on what your doing. An 80 gallon tank will trap a lot of moisture at the bottom, where as a smaller tank won't have enough time to condense. The more air your using the harder it is to draw the moisture out. ie: running a DA sander etc...

Do a search for "home made air dryer" on google. You should find a bunch of stuff.

Marcel

20131104_113946_zps519cbd4f.jpg
 
Xalky,

Whoah baby, that is nice. Thanks for passing that along. I really would like a dryer like this. The sandblaster and plasma cutter would work so much better...


Ray
 
Xalky,

Whoah baby, that is nice. Thanks for passing that along. I really would like a dryer like this. The sandblaster and plasma cutter would work so much better...


Ray
Mine has been working great. The only complaint some people have had is that the float valve doesn't work well. Mine has been fine, but when the float valve stops working, I'll just figure out another way to drain it. It removes the moisture well. On my plasma table , if the moisture starts to foul the flame, the plasma cutter would fault and stop the program and I'd have to start all over. Since I put this on ,I've never had that problem again. It was well worth the money to me.

Marcel
 
Ask Franz about his no moving parts dryer. Physics provide a method of temp drop to reduce the capacity of air to hold water, so it condenses out to be drained. Might be a good project to build one. He's a member here, and probably would advise and answer questions if you have them.

I prefer the timer driven dump valves. Floats have always given me trouble.
 
Hi Franz, I actually found mention of the Franzinator online last night. Your links helped a lot. If the base unit will remove 75% of the moisture, do you have an estimate for the Mark 6 water cooled version or the freon cooled version you mentioned in one of the articles? I live on the west coast in a near rain forrest environment where we get 120" of rain a year so moisture is a problem here. My existing compressor in it's near fatal state doesn't remember if it's a compressor or a pressure washer and in it's confusion it doesn't do either well.:dunno: I'm thinking I'll have one Franzinator at the compressor and maybe a second and or a polisher at the plasma table or other Moisture sensitive areas.

Edit: With the idea of a chilled unit, for discussions sake a modified AC unit with the copper coils on the Franzinator substituted for the evaporator in the AC unit, would it remove more moisture if it were run as a single unit? or would it make sense to run 2 in series, the ambient air cooled unit followed by the chilled unit for maximum drying? If the 2 in series would work well the second unit could be bypassed for normal use and the chiller switched on when needed. Just a thought.

Brian


Thanks Tony, I always wanted to write an Encyclopedia.I'll begin by saying I own a genuine made in Painted Post Ingersole Rand Refrig dryer. I use it about once every 4 years during absolutely tropical humidity conditions. It's a last resort device, and there are so very many more cost effective ways to minimize water content in an air stream. The device Tony is referencing is the Franzinator (multiple spellings exist) originally named by my bud RockyD over on the original Hobart Welding Forum. I didn't invent it, I merely took an existing device and improved on it through 6 generations.Rather than wear out the set of brass fingertips I have on, http://z6.invisionfree.com/ToolBoxTalk/index.php?showtopic=1461And if you want the version for people who do not feel they can pressure vessel weld safely, http://z6.invisionfree.com/ToolBoxTalk/index.php?showtopic=1575 Last year I got lucky and a pressure weldor with access to an infrared camera built a Franzinator and shot pics proving the temperatures of the column in operation on a small machine.http://z6.invisionfree.com/ToolBoxTalk/index.php?showtopic=3630 It works, and it generally removes 75% of the moisture from the compressed air stream between compressor and receiver.If you live in a swamp or on either coast, you may need to move up to the Mark III or even Mark 6 water cooled version.If you're running over 5hp of compressor you'll need more than 1 column. Water in compressed air isn't a simple one size fits all problem, even with Franzinators in the system.I've come to the point of considering the first step to be outside air intake to the machine which provides a cleaner air stream, longer machine life, no hydrocarbon residue, and ease of compressor noise suppression. Air at ground level is filthy and wet. Air 13 feet above ground is considerably cleaner, hydrocarbon free, and generally lower in humidity. Serious consideration needs to be given to intake line diameter in doing this though given the shockwaves developed by reciprocating compressors. The third consideration is getting rid of the accumulated slop in the receiver. The wonderful bottom drain boss on 90% of receivers is a pool creator inside the receiver. Most tank manufacturers pierce the boss into the vessel rather than drill the hole and weld the boss onto the outside surface. That problem is easily solved by replacing one of the plugs in the receiver with a bushing and installing a soda straw to the bottom of the vessel to remove the water. Soda straws plug up far less frequently than bottom drains, and there are several ways to valve the slop discharge. Once the air is in the receiver you pretty much loose ability to remove any water vapor leaving the receiver by condensation, because the receiver will generally be at room temperature, as will the air inside it. If you're operating a soda straw removal system your water level in the receiver will be pretty low, but if you want to remove more it can be done still at a low cost. Yes, there is a use for copper and PVC in compressed air systems, and that use is removing water from the air stream. 20 feet of copper inside of 20 feet of PVC acting as a water jacket will cool the air from room temperature to around 50°, and the water flow required is very minimal.The best part, in Summer yo can flow the discharge water to your shop roof where it becomes a refrigerant cooling the roof by evaporating off, and cools the shop. If you don't have water available you can always go to a Jonsiematic air polisher, a revised version of the underground drips used to accumulate condensate from Natural Gas Pipe systems.http://z6.invisionfree.com/ToolBoxTalk/index.php?showtopic=1576 There is more that can be done, but this is already long, and my companion Art Ritus says this should occupy Tony and others a while.
 
Sounds like my bud Duke in Georgia who runs a powder coat shop in a SWAMP!<<>>
Doing moisture removal via the Internet reminds me of a statement from one of the Air experts at one manufacturer; Never ask what size the compressor is, ask what horsepower or you'll sit on the phone while the guy runs to the compressor and comes back to tell you it's 84" long, 56" wide and 73" tall.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>

I doubt I have as much of a problem as your friend Duke, Our humidity was 60-75 all summer and runs 99%+ all winter, with a few breaks where it drops into the 20's. Good analogy on the size of a compressor. :)


Franzinators work because hot moisture laden air from the compressor is Shock Cooled. In swamps the unit needs to derate to about 3hp of capacity. Look at the thermal image, it was shot in a 70° shop and the colum is mounted to high speed pretend compressor. The color at top & bottom of the colum indicates within 1° of ambient. If the shop was hotter ambient the colum would be less efficient. Best estimate from the infrared image is compressed air is leaving the colum at ambient temperature, ergo, adding a second colum in series won't remove any additional moisture since no additional temp drop is available in the airstream. <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>

My thought was that if the second column was chilled the temp drop would be from ambient down to whatever the chiller could provide, 34* maybe. What is the measured temp of the outlet air entering the column, I'll go back and re read your articles and see if I can find that. So 70* down to ~34* wouldn't be enough temp change to make the Franzinator work is what I'm getting.


On your pressure washer/bicycle pump, depending on horsepower an additional column in series won't help, you need to bail as much slop out of the receiver as you can, and it will probably resemble Secret Sauce from McDonalds based on my experience. Water or freon cooling really didn't gain much performance in my experiments. <<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>

There won't be any effort put into this unit, it was a wanna be compressor from day one, I'll pull the motor and cast the rest to the scrap pile. If the water or freon cooling don't gain much I'll stick to a single unit and a polisher and see how it goes.


If you insist on trying, scrap the AC unit idea, either a Jet Spray beverage cooler or a dehumidifier is sized about right for the task. Surplus Center did have a bunch of beverage chiller units at a cheap price, not sure if they still do or not. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I was thinking of the AC unit because I have 3 of them sitting around taking up space...


My swamp recommendation post receiver would largely depend on ambient temperature and dewpoint desired.

The Column makes an excellent accumulator downline, but ceases to be a Franzinator for want of temperature differential. Plasma is a world I'm acquainted with, and most often the problem is in the air system piping. Lazy pipefitters insist on using a T to drop from the horizontal rather than a X with air leaving at the top and slop leaving at the bottom. Compressed air MUST be piped similarly to a fire sprinkler system for NonPotable Water. Bottom taps just amplify the water problem.

Once you get the slop out of the receiver, big shock here, bottom drains don't do that, whip up a polisher, put it between the regulator and the machine to provide a cushion of lowpressure air, and see how it functions.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Bear in mind compressed air travels fast in a tube system, and you have very short available time on target to improve & remove downstream from the receiver.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Because line feed codes aren't working>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I'll look into your polisher design and soda straw tank drain, both look pretty strait forward.

Thanks again
Brian
 
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