4-c Collets In My Old Sheldon

[Green Frog]

Well, imagine my disappointment when, several years ago, I discovered that the lathe I had inherited had a spindle nose with a #4 Morse Taper, meaning that the most suitable collets for it were the rather rare and elusive 4-Cs! Over the years, I have found a draw bar and adaptor and accumulated a full run of them by 32nds as well as a couple of the big flat faced ones you grind yourself ("pot chucks"?) I just saw an old Sheldon catalog that shows the company providing collets in round, square, and hex configurations. Wish I could go back in time and order a complete set at period pricing! Anyway, I was just wondering whether anyone else had experience with either the early 10" Sheldon and collets or even anyone using the 4-C collets who would like to share.

Froggie

 

[wa5cab]

I don't (I have an Atlas, which is too small). What I would probably do under your circumstances is to spend time trying to find a 4C to 3MT adaptor.and if I really needed to use collets, get an easy to find set of 3C's (3AT are equivalent but harder to find) for every thing up to 1/2". Or if I only needed to hold milling cutters or or 1/16" increment stock, a set of 3MT collets. And only look for 4C collets larger than whichever smaller one I had settled on.

 

[Green Frog]

If I were starting now from scratch, that is probably what I would do. Fortunately for me, in a previous peak of interest long ago in things machine related I got busy on a kinder, gentler e-Bay and bought several mixed lots of 4-Cs until I was able to assemble a pretty good set of them (everything from 1/16" to 3/4" by 32nds as well as a scattering of 64ths. I had enough left over from my buying sprees to put together a pretty good "starter set" and since I was semi-active on "Milacron's" machining website, I sold them to another user there who was also trying to get started and made back a fair amount of my investment. I'm not sure I'll ever go back and finish my 64ths though... I don't know whether I would use them enough to justify their expense and effort. Of course I wouldn't turn them down if they fell into my lap! I'm wondering whether I can justify hunting down the square and hex holding collets, especially the 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8" as those sizes of specialty stock show up often enough around here, those collets might just be worthwhile.

Since I have that Atlas MFC Mill, I'll be gathering up #2 Morse Taper collets for that... of course they also fit the tailstock on my Lempco/Sheldon, so they will do double duty. There is even a Vertical Conversion I am looking at that which uses the #2 MTs so that means they will have even more utility. During a flurry of class-taking, I made up a #4 to #2 converter... I don't foresee using them in my lathe's headstock, but I could even put them in there in a pinch. The fact of the matter is, I can even put them in my big Craftsman Drill Press, but won't do it since I'm not sure I can get them back out without the tang.

After wandering so far afield, I'll re-pose my original question. Does anyone have the original Sheldon-supplied set of collets for their lathe and if yes do you recognize any difference between them and ones made by Hardinge or one of the collet specialty companies? I've got my own situation pretty well contained now but would be interested to hear how others are doing.

Froggie

 

[wa5cab]

I know you were trying to get back to your original question. But I have a suggestion on how to conveniently use 2MT draw bar type 2MT shanks in your drill press. Find something with a shank-type 2MT arbor on it that is otherwise junk. Cut the tang and about half an inch of the taper off, turn the taper down to 3/8" dia. and thread it 3/8"-16. Before you put the threaded end arbor in the spindle, screw shank onto it. Of course, how practical the idea is probably depends upon how hard the taper is. But you won't hurt anything by annealing it.

 

[Green Frog]

Robert, the only problem with your suggestion might be the overall length of the taper/tang combined... I'm not sure there would be enough room in the socket to do as you suggest. That said, I don't see much likelihood of using my #2 MT stuff on the drill press anyway, so the "problem" probably isn't a problem after all. I had thought at one time of using the #2 MT collets for other stuff, but with the 4-C collets for the lathe some of the "pressure" is off.

Froggie

 

[wa5cab]

As I envisioned it (haven't actually put calipers to anything), there would be no significant change in length compared to say a 2MT drill bit. The turn down to 3/8" diameter would completely remove the 2MT portion.

 

[bl00]

Here's an example of a thread adapter to let you use ER collets. ER is a whole lot easier to find than 4c.

 

[wa5cab]

BL,

He already has a pretty much complete 4C system already. His question was whether or not anyone else does and if so what was their experience with it. And whether or not he should try to acquire the smaller square or hex collets.

FWIW, I would say that the answer to the latter question is Yes. I have them in 3AT for my Atlas 3996. Have only ever used one of them once. But it made the difference between a 10 minute conversion from and back to the normal Bernerd 3-jaw chuck versus the tedious setting of a 4-jaw (it was a square one that I used).

 

[Green Frog]

Robert D, in the words of that wise commentator, Michelle Tanner, "You've got it dude!"

I'm trying to make it quick and easy to throw a piece of round stock into the lathe and do a quick job without extensive setup time etc, so I'm thinking if the stock will fit a collet it will be centered without any blood, sweat, or tears and I can be done before I would even be able to set up my stock in the 4 jaw chuck (I don't have an accurate 3 jaw at this time. ) I'm trying to justify the expenditure for square and hex collets, but I don't have that much stock pass through already profiled... and at ca $50 a pop for those collets, well I've got other stuff I need a lot more.

Although it's OT, since I'm the OP, I guess I can do it... I'c like to ask, has anybody ever seen the square and hex blocks like they make for 5-C collets only for 4-C collets to profile stock in a mill? I've seen a 4-C drill holder, and I'm thinking maybe it could be locked somehow sort of like a dividing head for the same end product...

Froggie