200 spindle question

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Mister Ed

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Hi all -
I pulled the spindle out of the 200, to install a new belt and clean up the old grease a bit. Also decided to swop out the back gear while I am at it (mine is missing one tooth).

Now, the perplexing thing to me is ... in the bearing side of the 194 bearing end cap mine has three small heavy coil springs installed. These apparently push on the bearing. Anyone ever seen this? I have seen the spring washers on the newer spindles, but don't recall ever seeing a reference to little coil springs.

Still all caked with grease and having issues getting the take up nut off the back side of the bearing. Once I get it cleaned up, I will get some pictures.

Ed
 
Ok, now that I have the grease cleaner off ... here are a couple pics of the springs. There are 4 not three like I thought.
IMG_2945.JPGIMG_2946.JPG

Anyone ever see this before?

IMG_2945.JPG IMG_2946.JPG
 
Ed,

I've never seen that before. I can only assume that it's a previous owner's attempt to pre-load the bearing. All the Logans I've seen use the Belleville washers.

Steve
 
It is interesting Steve. This looks to be a very old "modification". IT shocked me when I first saw this. This lathe gives you the impression of being "untouched" ... except for the drive being changed from the stand model (200) to the bench model (210). I have had it for 7-8 years and only slid the spindle out far enough to install one of the Logan endless belts.

Interesting enough, in searching this morning, I have found three other references of this same "fix" on the early 200 series headstocks (pre Bellville washer).

As a side note, the bearing has me concerned. I boiled it out and it cleaned up nice ... but it does have some stick/grittiness when moving it slowly in your hand.
 
Interesting;

And this brings up a bit of a mystery topic in my experience. The parts schematic clearly shows LA-247 Spring Washer, but neither my '42 nor a much later "Series 200" headstock I bought had one, Logan does not list them for sale currently, and no one I've talked to has any information on them. I've posted asking about it, and got NO RESPONSES. If either of you have seen one, you are the first people I've heard of who did.

In addition, I thought both the original bearing and the replacement you can currently get from Logan were preloaded? Would this not obviate the need to preload the spindle or the bearing itself?
 
Redlineman said:
Interesting;

And this brings up a bit of a mystery topic in my experience. The parts schematic clearly shows LA-247 Spring Washer, but neither my '42 nor a much later "Series 200" headstock I bought had one, Logan does not list them for sale currently, and no one I've talked to has any information on them. I've posted asking about it, and got NO RESPONSES. If either of you have seen one, you are the first people I've heard of who did.

In addition, I thought both the original bearing and the replacement you can currently get from Logan were preloaded? Would this not obviate the need to preload the spindle or the bearing itself?
Click to expand...
I don't know when the spring washer came about in the 200 series, but I believe mid 50's (just a hunch). The exploded Logan parts diagram for the later 180-2 headstock (in the literature from Logan) is dated '67. The earlier 180-2 diagram is dated '47.

As far as the bearings ... yes you hear much talk about these mysterious preloaded bearings. I am far from a bearing guru, but, would you not expect a different part number for preloaded vs non preloaded? I was reading some SKF literature last night and there are two separate methods for making this type of bearing. Also found a thread talking about this subject and one guy was quoting from an old ('70s) New Departure catalogue ... more interesting info. I'll see if I can't dig up links to those two pieces of info.

Here is the interesting thread:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/7848-New-Logan-bearings
The SKF info on angular ball bearings:
http://www.skf.com/binary/30-97834/519959-.pdf
 
Last edited:
Hey;

Interesting thread, but sounds like a dead end. From my reading, I believe that the bearing that Logan offers now is preloaded. It is my surmise from this reading that Logan was not even aware that the bearings had been "special" until people started complaining that the "generic" versions they were selling had too much play. At this point, they enjoined a company to make preloaded versions for them. This may explain the price they get for them! A lot of this is conjecture, but seems to be a reasonable story.

Keep cleaning on your bearing. One fellow on these forums discovered that Pine Sol was the only thing that would dissolve that old hard grease. You may still have some in your bearing! Mine cleaned up very nicely, from pretty notchy to start.
 
Redlineman said:
Hey;

Interesting thread, but sounds like a dead end. From my reading, I believe that the bearing that Logan offers now is preloaded. It is my surmise from this reading that Logan was not even aware that the bearings had been "special" until people started complaining that the "generic" versions they were selling had too much play. At this point, they enjoined a company to make preloaded versions for them. This may explain the price they get for them! A lot of this is conjecture, but seems to be a reasonable story.
Click to expand...
I guess I had never realized Logan was stocking the wrong bearing. I just went back and read the first post in the thread by JTiers that I posted the link to. Low and behold it says right there that Logan was selling the 5207M (I presume with ring). I wonder what the current bearing is marked??

Redlineman said:
Keep cleaning on your bearing. One fellow on these forums discovered that Pine Sol was the only thing that would dissolve that old hard grease. You may still have some in your bearing! Mine cleaned up very nicely, from pretty notchy to start.
Click to expand...
Yep, I had temp oiled it up and stuck it back in (hoping that running with the oil would clear more hard bits up). However, my new serp belt was too short (39" which is what's called for). Then I decided to clean up the old motor ... until I found all the stiff cracking insulation. 40" & 41" belts and a new 1/2 hp TEFC motor are now on order.

So, the bearing is coming back out today for more soaking.
 
Hi,

I have an early, model 200 that had not been used in years. When I dissembled the head-stock, I found that the bearings were locked up and the bearings would need replacing. While researching I found an article about cleaning the bearings.
I had used mineral spirits to soak the bearings, but after two days the bearings still felt rough.

Back to the article, according to the author, a mixture of mineral spirits and acetone would remove the dried grease.
This mixture worked perfectly. after soaking in the new mixture the bearings felt smooth as a baby's you know what! I could hardly believe my good fortune.

As far as the bellville washers, my head-stock does not have them, I think that was added later.

In closing, two things: use the high pressure grease made for those bearings.
And lastly, do not spin any bearings with compressed air. I have seen what can happen if one piece of grit locks a bearings. Lets just say you can have rings on your fingers, that you don't want.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
 
That is a good point on the acetone. I use a lot of "Ed's Red" Bore cleaner. This is a mix of (off the top of my head, Google for exact recipe) kerosene, mineral spirits, ATF, and acetone. Great gun cleaner, penetrating oil, gunk remover, etc.

Was out of fresh "Ed's Red" (only had used/dirty sitting around) so I soaked the bearings in Purple Power, and I think they may have cleaned up. That stripped all the lube out of them. I oiled them up to test and they felt better. So I greased them up and stuck them back in ... still do not have the new motor wired up.

Time will tell.
 
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