1955 Monarch 10EE

Lenmann

Registered
Registered
Joined
Dec 31, 2021
Messages
5
Hello fellow hobby machinists. my name is Len, long time lurker and new poster.

Earlier this year I acquired a 1955 10EE from a friend in southern CA. My friend owns a small job shop and had owned the lathe for about 10 years. It had a history of running sporadically and as such was used less and less over time. Eventually he needed the space for revenue producing activities and offered it to me.

The machine was originally sold to Hughes Aircraft in Culver City. It came to me with 3 and 4 jaw chucks, 5c collet closer, steady rest, taper attachment, and an Aloris tool post. Overall it looks to be in good shape mechanically at least.

IMG_3856.jpeg
IMG_3412.jpegIMG_3423.jpegIMG_3428.jpeg
The machine's spindle drive system is a DC motor and the WIAD (works in a drawer) that as mentioned above has a history of inconsistent performance, starting up normally only about 50% of the time and once running shutting off unexpectedly. My initial thoughts were to try to repair the WIAD to keep the amazing DC performance the machine came with originally but after a closer look I have concluded that the machine would need a complete rewire as the old insulation was dried out and is falling off the conductors. In addition the wire coloring has faded, wire markers, and terminal markers are gone or faded to the point they are not usable which would make a rewire challenging, not to mention no guarantee that the drive would run any better after all the effort.

IMG_5047.jpeg
IMG_5050.jpeg

And so begins my journey to convert the drive system to an A/C motor with a VFD control keeping the gear reduction function. I have read all of the more recent VFD conversion threads here and on Practical Machinist and feel pretty comfortable with the mechanical side of the conversion and less comfortable with the electronics side of things. I have lots of questions, many of them no doubt dumb, but this forum and its members have a wealth of knowledge and are willing to share. My hope is that generosity will get me through my project and that this thread will help someone else in the future.

In my next post I will detail what I think the right game plan is and start asking some of the pesky questions.
 
Newer Monarch retrofits/rebuilds of the 10EE use an inverter/vector motor with a VFD and get comparable performance to the older drives. If you keep the back gear, I would recommend staying with a 5 Hp 4P vector motor, w/o the back gear most individuals go with a 10 Hp motor. Using the stock back gear is more ideal, and the newer vector motors can be run up to 5500-6000 RPM and have constant torque down to close to 0 RPM. With newer sensorless vector VFD's they also run the motor in very tight control, typically will hold +/- 1-2 RPM regardless of load. I use quite a few Yaskawa GA500 drives, and the Yaskawa GA50UB018ABA 5 HP 230V 1 Phase Heavy Duty Variable Frequency Drive is a good match up if single phase and 5 Hp. I can provide you withe some assistance with the VFD setup/parameters and setup if there is something you need help with. The old rectifier tubes are hard to find and pricey, you may be able to sell some of the drive components at a good price. On the mechanical end you might reach-out to tailstock4 who posts here and on the Practical Machinist, he did a similar install on his 10EE, there are a number of other people that have also done similar installs. I helped tailstock4 with a recent install on his P&W lathe with the same motor and a 10Hp Yaskawa drive that can also be run off of single phase. He might post pictures.
Mark

 
Beautiful machine. I'd bet that you'll be able to sell those original drive parts for enough to pay for your new drive system.
Good luck and keep us up to date , and we love pictures.

Ted
 
Mark, I was hoping you would chime in, thank you.

I have 3 phase power available via a 15 hp RPC (currently feeds my LeBlond that the 10EE will replace) and/or could pull and new single phase feed if needed for the 10EE.

I am assuming my choice of incoming power dictates the the phase of the VFD, is that correct?

Is there any advantage of 3 phase vs. 1 phase power?

I am definitely keeping the back gear btw.
 
So, some background that may be helpful. I have a Bridgeport mill and a LeBlond Servoshift lathe in my home shop running on 3 phase power via a 15 hp rotary phase converter. I also have common fabrication equipment such as a a Doall 12” bandsaw, TIG and MIG welders, sanders, grinders, etc. My background is in manufacturing and at one time, long ago, I made my living turning handles. Ultimately the 10EE will displace the LeBlond.

My current plan is largely informed by the conversions that @will.mcray
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/my-10ee-vfd-conversion.102727/

And the one by @deek completed.
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/my-10ee-vfd-conversion.102727/

I plan to keep the back gear so I believe a 5 hp vector motor should work well. I will likely do something along the lines of what Mark posted above.

On the VFD, I have both 3 phase and 1 phase available. Is there benefit of one over the other in this type of conversion?

Should the VFD be sized to match the motor? I thought I read somewhere that there was a benefit to up-sizing the VFD, so a 7.5 hp VFD with a 5 hp motor?

How should I be thinking about circuit protection on the machine? Here is pic I grabbed from @will.mcray post. what am I looking at on the right side of the new tombstone?

af315ff562582059523b6db0d5a84728.jpg


I want to use the factory controls such as the on/off switches, speed control, and forward/reverse controls. The two threads above spec out most of the parts needed for these functions.

Tell me about braking resistors. Not sure what they do or how to size them or even wire them.

What else am I not thinking about?
 
I have now done the 10EE rebuild to VFD three times. here's one with backgear:

Another fella told me its not that hard to replace the shaft on a motor to get the long length used in the above build. A motor shop can just press a new one on.

The build mentioned above can work too. I will say I did this exact build 20 years ago and it developed a slight out of balance.

For sure use the original controls. I show a nice way in my 10EE no backgear build thread. Discussion on the wiring there too.

Yep, you want the back resistor. For cheap skates (me) a power resistor of the right size works fine for a fraction of the cost.

Several of us have done this work with good success, and will be glad to help.
 
A single phase VFD is built heavier, so a 5 Hp single phase input VFD would be sufficient. If you are running off of 3 phase, a 3 phase input 5Hp VFD will be much smaller, if you want the flexibility of either then you can run an oversized 3 phase input VFD with a DC buss choke. Also there is the factor that when using a RPC to generate 3 phase and feeding a VFD there can be some derating of the VFD and/or need to add a DC choke. So for a 5 HP motor one would use the something like the Hitachi WJ200-075LF or the Yaskawa GA50U2042ABA three phase input VFD's, they could be run either on single phase or 3 phase. If only 3 phase then GA50U2030ABA. One needs to look at the output amps in heavy duty mode with any derating factors. Cost wise the difference is small between these VFD models, but as I mentioned the Yaskawa drive is a bit more flexible and maybe slightly better motor control then the WJ200 (there is a replacement model C1-075LFU2 replaces the WJ200-075LF)

As far design, there are different approaches. Having a contactor on the input power that latches when energized is an option, but I usually use a rotary disconnect switch and then use a simple relay setup to factor in the safety circuits like an E-Stop, belt cover locks and spindle lock. Also if you want a jog feature or an ELS type of system. You can use a power up contactor, but then you need an energized power source that is on all the time to power the latch.

The motor listed above would be a good choice, Baldor/Reliance/ABB also has various vector motors, but the newer BlaclMax is a bit easier to fit in due to its lower weight.
Mark
 
First, congratulations on what looks like a really nice 10EE. I’ve rebuilt two 10EE’s, one with a VFD and one for a friend with a motor generator. My setup for the VFD compares very favorably with the MG machine in terms of power but is superior in smoothness, drive reaction time, quietness and less maintenance.

My Monarch has Nidec M701 with an encoder for closed loop. The motor is a Black Max 7.5 hp with back gear. I also changed the pulley drive to 1:1 by making a new top pulley. This helps with low end torque. I run the motor at a maximum of 4,000 RPM. At this speed I did have to rebalance several components in the back gear box. I also had to use a matched set of belts.

One other thing I did that I’m very pleased with is I decided to completely enclose the bottom of the machine. There are two openings and four fans. Two fans pull air in through a filter and the other two discharge air out of a bottom back hole. This really wasn’t necessary for cooling, but it did allow me to put sound insulation in the bottom of the machine and a rubber bulkhead about midpoint. This, with new spindle bearings, made for a machine that has about the same amount of noise as a handfeed surface grinder (i.e. very quiet.) It also keeps dirt and pests out.

On my machine, I chose to mount the back gear directly to the motor as Monarch does. With a 7.5 hp and an encoder, it took up every inch of space lengthwise. I also believe there are some advantages in vibration reduction, rigidity, and alignment.

IMG_0346 (1).jpg IMG_0336 (1).jpg IMG_0363 (1).JPG IMG_0338.jpg IMG_0331.JPG IMG_0337.jpg
 
First, congratulations on what looks like a really nice 10EE. I’ve rebuilt two 10EE’s, one with a VFD and one for a friend with a motor generator. My setup for the VFD compares very favorably with the MG machine in terms of power but is superior in smoothness, drive reaction time, quietness and less maintenance.

My Monarch has Nidec M701 with an encoder for closed loop. The motor is a Black Max 7.5 hp with back gear. I also changed the pulley drive to 1:1 by making a new top pulley. This helps with low end torque. I run the motor at a maximum of 4,000 RPM. At this speed I did have to rebalance several components in the back gear box. I also had to use a matched set of belts.

One other thing I did that I’m very pleased with is I decided to completely enclose the bottom of the machine. There are two openings and four fans. Two fans pull air in through a filter and the other two discharge air out of a bottom back hole. This really wasn’t necessary for cooling, but it did allow me to put sound insulation in the bottom of the machine and a rubber bulkhead about midpoint. This, with new spindle bearings, made for a machine that has about the same amount of noise as a handfeed surface grinder (i.e. very quiet.) It also keeps dirt and pests out.

On my machine, I chose to mount the back gear directly to the motor as Monarch does. With a 7.5 hp and an encoder, it took up every inch of space lengthwise. I also believe there are some advantages in vibration reduction, rigidity, and alignment.

View attachment 510312 View attachment 510309 View attachment 510310 View attachment 510311 View attachment 510307 View attachment 510308
Thanks for the insight. On the motor to back gear interface, how did you connect the motor shaft to the back gear shaft?
 
Back
Top