14x40 spindle bearing replacement

C

Cadillac

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Hi
I have a 14x40 optimum lathe 2005. I had bought the lathe around 2012 and has performed great. I went to change the headstock oil and saw A problem with the bearings so I removed the spindle. After removing the spindle I noticed the bearings didn’t look as they should. Races had wear marks where rollers ran, and rollers and races had evidence of contamination at some point.
The oiling system on these lathes is garbage in my opinion. Splash system get throw into holes for spindle Bearing and drips to lube Bearings. Well the channel the oil rides allow sediment to settle in channel which is the supply for the headstock bearings. there is no filtering of the sort and you can see debris settled in areas of the channel. No good
So I was on a mission to find replacement replacement spindle bearings. Original bearings are a no name DRZ 30212/p5 and a 30210/p5 tapered bearing. I did a bunch of searching And surprisingly grizzly tools had the replacements nsk p5 rating bearings for under 200 dollars for both delivered. I found others but the uncertainty of eBay sellers and counterfeit bearings I went with the grizzly bearings. Came in two days was happy with the deal.
Bearings came in nsk sealed boxes with nsk tape sealing the boxes. My first observation was the nsk box has made in Japan good. But grizzly has their sticker on one side with the part number and their logo and it says made in China for grizzly industry. 12DC1EE4-5524-4887-B172-D03EE014B6D4.jpegF7BA312F-72F9-49CE-9670-1CF018FA5A19.jpeg
what the heck which one is it??? Then I opened the boxes. Bearings are in a sealed bag then the bearing was wrapped in another plastic wrap. Looking at the bearings and races their are no p5 ratings on either. the bearings numbers have a J at the end which I thought I read somewhere is a wheel bearing designation??A11CCD8C-A88E-4D64-A851-E33DC33E2280.jpeg3EF1AF66-6080-4C0F-B647-4AB86DA7E459.jpeg
My problem is the uncertainty. I only want to do this one time with quality materials. What do you all think is this a standard wheel bearing or they just don’t go the extra step and mark the p5 rating anymore. The originals had the markingimage.jpg
 
NSK/SKF/Timken are the target of counterfeit bearings quite frequently. The grizzly sticker is suspect but is it a mistake????? or are they counterfeits????

As far as marking P5 on the bearing, name brands never do, its on the box. However normally P5, P4, and P2 bearings have a little dot on the inner race to denote the high point of concentric. Its just an acid mark that darkens the steel. I don't see that. Is it on the opposite side? These marks are aligned with each other(front and back race) and 180 from the run out of the spindle itself which is checked on angle blocks on a surface plate.

Also it looks like there is rust or dirt on the radius of the cone on the third picture, very unlike NSK.

The surface finish of the rollers and cup would be very apparent under 500x magnification but not everyone has this.

With precision bearings, the parts start out the same as the low precision bearings, they are just sorted, and have additional finishing and checks to get the better class. I believe some like barden(which are the best in my opionion) don't even make the "iron" in their bearings, but buy it and then super finish it to their specs.

Also note, I would imagine the original bearings marking were lies. Very common practice in that part of the world.
 
Last edited:
Cadillac said:
Hi
I have a 14x40 optimum lathe 2005. I had bought the lathe around 2012 and has performed great. I went to change the headstock oil and saw A problem with the bearings so I removed the spindle. After removing the spindle I noticed the bearings didn’t look as they should. Races had wear marks where rollers ran, and rollers and races had evidence of contamination at some point.
The oiling system on these lathes is garbage in my opinion. Splash system get throw into holes for spindle Bearing and drips to lube Bearings. Well the channel the oil rides allow sediment to settle in channel which is the supply for the headstock bearings. there is no filtering of the sort and you can see debris settled in areas of the channel. No good
So I was on a mission to find replacement replacement spindle bearings. Original bearings are a no name DRZ 30212/p5 and a 30210/p5 tapered bearing. I did a bunch of searching And surprisingly grizzly tools had the replacements nsk p5 rating bearings for under 200 dollars for both delivered. I found others but the uncertainty of eBay sellers and counterfeit bearings I went with the grizzly bearings. Came in two days was happy with the deal.
Bearings came in nsk sealed boxes with nsk tape sealing the boxes. My first observation was the nsk box has made in Japan good. But grizzly has their sticker on one side with the part number and their logo and it says made in China for grizzly industry. View attachment 395058View attachment 395059
what the heck which one is it??? Then I opened the boxes. Bearings are in a sealed bag then the bearing was wrapped in another plastic wrap. Looking at the bearings and races their are no p5 ratings on either. the bearings numbers have a J at the end which I thought I read somewhere is a wheel bearing designation??View attachment 395060View attachment 395061
My problem is the uncertainty. I only want to do this one time with quality materials. What do you all think is this a standard wheel bearing or they just don’t go the extra step and mark the p5 rating anymore. The originals had the markingView attachment 395063
Click to expand...
I haven't tried it but this from the actual NSK website: https://www.nskeurope.com/en/news-m...-upgraded-to-include-industrial-bearings.html . An app that reads the barcode with your phone and will till you if bearings are counterfeit.
 
It’s the sticker that makes me think. Nsk made in Japan exactly what I would think. the fact that it says made in China for grizzly industry and not made in Japan? Then printed on the box is HR30210J
21-03image.jpg
Their are no other markings on races for high spot. I am familiar with them but don’t see anything.
I’m gonna go with these bearings the old ones I cannot see putting back in I just didn’t like how they looked. I’ve taken apart greased filled bearings that looked in better shape.
These are the old ones first is gear side and it’s race third is headstock side and it’s race. Contamination for sure. image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
Spindle runout was checked prior to disassembly and it had zero runout with a tenth indicator. I checked for deflection and with alot of weight I could only get .0002. Checking with a pry-bar and wood against spindle to the lathe bed. And I checked for any endplay which I couldn’t read any.
I’m cleaning everything up right now deburring and getting ready for reassembly. We will see still trying to solve filtering oil prior to bearings?
 
I have a similar 13×40 and have been thinking about changing the bearings in it. I would bet the replacements you bought will be at least as good or better than the originals.
I will be interested to hear what you think after you finish the project.
Joe
 
Those do not look like P5 bearings, the first one is even marked as P6 by Grizzly. I sent a message to a colleague of mine that is the national sales manager for NSK to ask how they mark the boxes and bearings for P5. I’ll let you know what I find out.

I don’t know about other manufacturers, but FAG marks their bearings with the the tolerance class, so if you buy an FAG P5 bearing and it is not marked that way on the bearing itself, then I would return it. If there is no tolerance class indicated, then you need to assume it is standard. The J simply means the contact angle meets ISO standards, and the HR is a high load rating. I believe those codes are specific to NSK since FAG and SKF don’t use that code on tapered roller bearings.

These bearings don’t have an indication on the box that they are anything but standard tolerance bearings, I would not install them until you can confirm they are authentic NSK P5 bearings. I have never seen a higher tolerance class bearing that did not at least have that indicated on the box, there would be no way for the warehouse to know what it was otherwise. If these are not P5, then shame on Grizzly for trying to sell standard bearings as a premium class.

Firebrick43 said:
I believe some like barden(which are the best in my opionion) don't even make the "iron" in their bearings, but buy it and then super finish it to their specs.
Click to expand...

Timken is the only bearing manufacturer I am aware of that made steel, they spun off the steel making business a number of years ago, so they are now having to purchase it like everyone else. Schaeffler (FAG, INA, and Barden) purchase their steel to make the bearings from around the world. Barden makes some parts from bar stock and imports others in a semi-finished state and then does the final grinding and honing to meet the tolerances of the class they are manufacturing.
 
I watched a video about doing this and the other roller bearings on the idler shafts were in terrible condition also. They are all common 6000 series and cheap to replace. I would check them out while you are in there.
Joe
 
My lathe is a Jet brand. They show around $400 each for those bearings and they are not precision bearings.
Plain robbery.
Joe
 
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