101.07403 with some broken parts, hoping for replacement suggestions.

[Tailormade]

Hi, I'll start this by admitting right off that I know almost nothing about machining. However, after using a friend's lathe with his assistance for a few hours, to make a part for my bike, I got the bug and want to learn a lot more.

I love making things, and just the idea of having the ability to make custom parts is opening my world of making things as much or more than adding welding to my toolbox did. There is a local continuing ed class on intro to lathe work that is only offered once a year that I'm hoping to take, in the meantime I'm consuming youtube videos and a couple of older videos by Rudy Kouhoupt my friend loaned me on machine lathe work. However, I'm not that great at learning without doing, and this winter was ridiculous here.

So I ended up buying this lathe last fall but not being able to use it much till now, it came with not much in the way of tooling and I probably spent way too much money for the condition I'm finding it to be in. The machine is filthy, and I'm still trying to figure out what condition it is really in.

I've been cleaning it up and lubricating it as I go. I was using non detergent 30 weight, and have since found that 20 weight is what is recommended. Presumably this isn't the end of the world.

So far I've found that I can get one of the pins out to remove the compound, but the other one will not budge no matter how much penetrating oil and magnetism and light tapping I apply. I'm using an 1/8" tig rod turned into a strong electromagnet and while one pops right out, the other wont budge. That may not be such a big deal, and maybe some time and vibration and more oil will eventually make that one free up. The compound does rotate freely with the bolts backed off, I'd just like to be able to remove it in case I ever have access to a milling attachment or worse, damage the compound. Thoughts on this are welcome.


The three definite problems I've found are:
broken left thrust washer
broken teeth on cross feed power feed gear
motor reverse wont self start

The broken left thrust washer (10f-74) that broke but I have no idea why, and not knowing how it was broken concerns me. I have run the lathe but not so much as chucked anything up yet. While it was running with the lead screw turning (but no power feed engaged) I heard a clink and looked over to find that washer on the table cracked in half. I'm unsure if this means the previous owner (who apparently had a religious conviction against cleaning his machines) had cracked it sometime ago, or much more concerning to me, if it somehow broke while it was just turning under no load.

The questions about this are:

#1, Is this a part I could just turn as a learning exercise? It *seems* like as long as I don't use the power feed, or engage the lead screw, there shouldn't be any issue with turning on the lathe. It also seems like as things go, this is not a terribly complex thing to turn. That said, it would be the first thing I'd ever made without someone looking over my shoulder, so if there is a way to screw it up, I'll probably find it.

#2, Would it be a terrible idea to get regular steel washers the same ID as the right hand thrust washer and just stack them until they are the right thickness? I don't know if the thrust washer is meant to be a sacrificial part to save the lead screw, and I certainly don't want to risk damage to the lead screw.

If turning it is a bad idea, and stacking washers is also a bad idea, I can just buy one, but... I've got a lathe now! I want to make parts. Also, 20$ for a washer just feels like a lot to pay for a washer if there are other good options.

The next broken part I found when I took the apron off to look behind it. The cross feed power feed gear, ( part 9-102-24) has two adjacent broken teeth. The questions about this part are:

#1, Is there a problem with leaving this broken if I don't use the cross feed power feed? Not permanently, but I'm wondering if there is any reason I can't use the lathe aside from that cross feed power feed with this part broken.

#2, Looking at the gear, I'm unclear on how this gear is held on. This makes me unclear on how I would replace it if I did get a new one. Any experience on changing out this gear would be appreciated.

#3 I assume making gears is a complex process, and cutting square holes in the center of said gears also a complex procedure. With that in mind, is that even a reasonable thing to take a crack at? I can get the gear for about 40$ online.


Last, or at least last that I've found so far, the reverse spin on the motor wont spin up on its own. I suspected this motor has a starter capacitor and it seems to, because when I give the chuck a little push it starts up.

Is replacing what I assume to be a start up capacitor something an end user can do? I am not concerned with safely handling a capacitor (I mean, depending on size they are dangerous but I know how to handle them). I'm just wondering if anyone else has has to replace theirs and if so, do you recall what the capacitor part number was, and where you got it? And of course, how involved was it to replace?


And beyond all those questions, now that you know I paid too much for a lathe owned by someone who was clearly pretty rough with it and especially hard on the power feed, what else should I be looking at to see if anything else is broken? Visually I don't see anything else that looks broken, but I'm not sure I'd be able to tell if the ways were screwed up (cant see anything wrong).

 

[CluelessNewB]

I will leave the Atlas specific questions for those that know more about this specific lathe. Atlas does still sell some parts so that might be an option. I suspect the thrust washer is bronze, if so a generic bronze thrust washer might be a perfect replacement.

Mcmaster-Carr is a decent supplier, You might want to find a few other items to make the order worthwhile.

Try here: https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-thrust-washers/=17fbdjg

So just to clarify, the motor starts fine in forward but not reverse? If that's what's happening I would suspect a loose connection or dirty contact on the reversing switch or possibly the reversing switch is not wired correctly. If the starting capacitor or starting contacts ar bad it probably would not start in either direction.

 

[Tailormade]

I will leave the Atlas specific questions for those that know more about this specific lathe. Atlas does still sell some parts so that might be an option. I suspect the thrust washer is bronze, if so a generic bronze thrust washer might be a perfect replacement.

The way it looks and broke I suspect its more of the zamak stuff, which bronze or brass should be able to fill in for.

Mcmaster-Carr is a decent supplier, You might want to find a few other items to make the order worthwhile.

Try here: https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-thrust-washers/=17fbdjg

Thanks, I'm hoping someone who has an intact left thrust washer can let me know it's dimensions or a matching part number. I cant tell from the shards I have if its supposed to be the same size as the right thrust washer. If anyone can confirm that they are the same size, I can just take the right hand one and find a match for it.

So just to clarify, the motor starts fine in forward but not reverse? If that's what's happening I would suspect a loose connection or dirty contact on the reversing switch or possibly the reversing switch is not wired correctly. If the starting capacitor or starting contacts ar bad it probably would not start in either direction.

Yes, in forward it starts right up, in reverse, it makes a buzzing sound, the lights in the shop dim and nothing happens, until I give the chuck a tiny push.

 

[David S]

There must be an open connection somewhere in the reverse circuit. One coil is not getting energized.

David

 

[RJSakowski]

Welcome to the group!

Since there are different part nos. for the left and right thrust washer there is most likely a differenc3e. However, the washer should not be all that critical in dimensioning. They may vary by thickness but you should be able to measure the thickness of the pieces you have. If you hold the left and right washers together, you can get an idea of the od. and id of the two. It is a part that you can easily make on the lathe and a good starting project. I would use brass or bearing bronze, not steel, for the washer. The left washer takes up most of the load when moving the carriage toward the headstock.

If you are referring to the 9-102-24 gear, (I pulled the number from a parts list for a 12 x 42 of similar vintage) that would be a difficult project for a beginner, along with requiring some advanced machinery and tooling. You may be able to find a replacement on e-bay. You can use the lathe without the power cross feed in the meantime. It won't do any damage.

If your motor starts in one direction but not the other, it's not the capacitor but in the wiring somewhere. If you can get it running by turning by hand, it is in the start circuit.

 

[wa5cab]

As the motor starts and runs normally in FWD, there is nothing wrong with either the start switch or the start capacitor. The normal way to wire a reversing switch for a single phase motor is to reverse the phase (swap Line for Neutral and vice versa) to the start winding circuit. Although flipping the phase to the run winding(s) will also work. As it apparently runs in reverse if you manually start it, the switch is either wired wrong (wrong terminals being used), is bad, or can't be wired to reverse a single phase motor.

As R.J. said, if you don't use power cross feed, the damaged gear teeth won't hurt anything. To replace the 9-102-24 gear, first remove the lead screw. Then remove the apron from the carriage, taking care not to lose the 9-61 Spring or the 9-201 Ball. Remove Spring and Ball, Remove the 10F-84 Knob. Note that the taper pin retaining the knob must be drifted back out the way in which it came in. Slide shaft and gear out the back of the apron.

Before attempting to remove the damaged gear, acquire the replacement. Reason is that if you buy it on eBay, it may already have the shaft installed. If you buy a new gear, to remove the old gear from the 10F-269 shaft press the shaft out. The gear may break. After the old gear is removed from the shaft, first try a little blacksmith work with a hammer and anvil and peen the flared end back flat. Use a file to dress the end of the shaft back flat. Slip the new gear onto the shaft. I would also use some Loctite Bearing & Bushing Mount. Peen the end of the shaft to retain the gear.

Before reassembling and re-installing the apron, I would first remove and not re-use the cross to longitudinal power feed interlock. The Atlas 10" and all of the late 12" do not have it. It was something that someone at Sears insisting on having. Remove the L6-264 Spacer, L6-263 Spring and L6-265 Plunger.

Slide the shaft back through the apron and reinstall the knob and tapered groove pin. Drop the ball and spring into the hole over the shaft and retain with a little grease. Reinstall the Apron. Reinstall the lead screw.

 

[Tailormade]

Thank you gentlemen. I really appreciate all the good info.

For the gear, it looks like I can get an oem zamak gear for about 40 with shipping, or get a new steel one for 45 with shipping. Neither come with the shaft attached. I'm hoping for a reply from Clausing this morning as well. I've heard they have parts for these old guys, but there is nothing on the website.

Any compelling reason to choose zamak over steel? I don't live where rust would be a problem and it would be oiled anyway, so I assume the only case where that might be an issue is if the steel is too hard on the gears interfacing with it. Presumably a careless owner can put a lot of stress on this gear as evidenced by it already being broken.

As for the thrust washer, the local hardware store had some brass washers/bushings in just the right size, so I bought a pair and just set the old right hand one aside in case I need a reference again if brass turns out to be too soft for the job.

While doing this I noticed that the top of the 10f-16 bearing is broken, such that the screw holes have become U shapes. With the carriage all the way over to the right hand side, I was able to get a good alignment of where this thing should be attached. I added some washers to the bolts (hex cap screws) to distribute that load a bit. I can get a replacement for this for 50$, but I'm starting to wonder how one determines when a lathe is a lemon, or money pit, or whatever you call a tool where you just keep finding broken things.

Regarding the motor, I guess my first step will be to open up the switch and see if the meter can find anything different on the forward vs the reverse switch. I'm not sure I like where the switch is right now anyway, its a big switch sticking out off the table that I've already bumped and would have turned it on if it were plugged in.

 

[RJSakowski]

With much use of the lead screw, you will get some wear. This is why the mounting holes are not precise; so you can adjust for wear. Your procedure of taking the carriage all the way to the right is correct, assuming the half nuts were engaged as well. The feed screw bearing (10f-16) can be fabricated if not readily available. Weld one up out of some pipe and flat stock and bore it out on the lathe. Make the bore oversized to accept a bronze bushing.

I expect that the damage you have found so far is pretty much due to a crash when running the lathe in power cross feed, motor problem excluded.

The steel gear will be stronger but that will make other components in the drive train more susceptible to failure. I would go with the steel personally. Zamak was used because it was cheap. Ideally, the weak link in the drive would be a $0.10 shear pin.

 

[wa5cab]

I was just about to comment that your case is the first example that I have heard of where the power cross feed intermediate gear (or the mating gear on the cross feed screw) had been damaged (as opposed to routine wear). The only broken part that has ever been reported in this circuit has heretofore been the key on the bevel gear where the lead screw keyway drives the power cross feed.

My guess is that the teeth were broken in a crash. I would suggest that when you do get around to replacing the damaged gear, you carefully examine the key in the 10F-82A mitre gear. And carefully examine the teeth on the 9-102-24 gear on the cross feed screw.

As far as steel versus Zamak goes, either one will work fine. Virtually all Atlas lathes ever made that had a 9-102-24 intermediate gear still have the original one. If you replace it with a Zamak one, it will undoubtedly outlast you. A steel one won't be any better unless it is cheaper. And finding one with a square hole in the hub might be difficult.

I don't know where you got a price for a Zamak replacement but if it was Sears Parts Direct, the Clausing price will probably be lower. Although $40 sounds about right for their prices. I recently bought a 9-101-24A Change Gear from them (which is I think the same gear except for the hub) for $42.32.

As far as a sheer pin is concerned, if you are thinking about adding one, I would add the slip clutch found on the late 1/2" bed 12" machines instead.

 

[Tailormade]

I spotted one on ebay with the shaft attached and went for it. Now to wait for it to arrive. It was ~29$

New question. I typed into ebay "craftsman 101.07403 live center, because the one it came with is in very poor condition. I was quickly confused because the manual says MT#2, and I had already thought MT #2 was correct, but there are MT#1's being sold as for this lathe. Are there some tail stocks out there setup for an MT1? I'm not at home looking at the lathe, so my question is, does the tail stock or the ram say somewhere on it which size is correct for that exact unit? Or I guess ebay's search engine might just insufficiently precise.


As for modifying/upgrading the machine, maybe in the future. Right now I want to get it working as it was originally intended, then once I feel like I know what it can do, then I can start thinking about upgrades and changes .