Wire size Question

Is not a watt a watt? if the load is 2.2 KW then that's basically what the draw will be plus any loss of efficiency of the VFD, which are supposedly around 97% efficient. So even if we add 10% for loss plus the 1.25% we still get around a 14 amp draw.
 
Some are looking at this as 2200 watts on the single phase input. Some are looking at it as 2200 watts of three phase output. This is where the square root of 3 (1.73) comes in.
 
Is not a watt a watt? if the load is 2.2 KW then that's basically what the draw will be plus any loss of efficiency of the VFD, which are supposedly around 97% efficient. So even if we add 10% for loss plus the 1.25% we still get around a 14 amp draw.
I believe the issue is that essentially a VFD rated for a 2.2KW (3HP) motor may actually provide for a limited time 150% of the load, or 3.3KW. Obviously this depends on the maker of the VFD and the parameters set, but this roughly matches what a 3HP motor can use.
 
As a rule, I usually don't get involved in single to three phase discussions. There are so many machine specific variables involved that it isn't worth my time. I personally don't use any 3 phase and if I did each installation would be specific in how it was handled. I don't like "electronic gizmos" and have other methods of dealing with the conversion.

Even a Master Machinist can often be a novice to the electrical field, beyond an "on-off" switch operation. Flip the switch "Up" and the light comes on, flip it "Down" it goes dark. Unless you are in England and some European countries, where it is the opposite. With that given, let's take a motor. Discounting the inductive portion of the circuit and relying only on the nameplate load. When I was aboard an old (1945ish) ship, in the 1970ish era, power factor was considered good at 86% at the generator switchboard. So we take that as a "rule of thumb" where machines are concerned. The difference shows up on your power bill but is otherwise not much of a concern.

The conversion factor of 1.73 is the relationship between single phase and three phase. So stated above, What was not stated was how and where it applies. Take a 3 phase motor, rated at a theoretical 10 amps at 240 volts name plate load. That is for 3 phase power. For single phase power, as converted, the load becomes 17.3 amps. Derating that figure to meet the "code" of 80% normal load on a circuit breaker, the result falls to a 25 amp circuit. My knowledge of the code is antiquated, it may be different now. In any case, you could "get away" with a 20 amp circuit, maybe. But a 30 amp circuit would be a safer choice from all the miscellaneous losses that are not given.

It is rare to see 120 volt feed for a VFD but it is an option in some cases. Calculations for 120 volt feed must be doubled. Inversely, a 480 volt motor being fed from a 240 volt circuit must also be doubled. Such as the 10 amps at 480 volts becomes 20 amps at 240 which then becomes 35 amps at the input to the VFD. Which becomes a 50 amp circuit at 240 volts. Or 100 amps at 120 volts. Let's not go there. That's one hell of a load imbalance. . .

Taken to the next step, a 30 amp circuit requires AWG 10 wire, which allows a 30 amp breaker.This again is the "code" and is a factor that covers heating of the wire. A lighter wire may carry the load but is subject to getting hot. Very hot so it cannot be touched. Best follow the code there. Followed through to the end, a "theoretical" 10 amp load requires a 30 amp circuit on 240 volts. Minimum. . . I used the theoretical load as an example because it makes the arithmetic simpler. To use for any other load, the calculation must be adjusted up or down persuant to the machine load.

There isn't room here, or reader's time, to cover every possible combination. For what it's worth, I was "mastered" in Florida in the '70s. That was a long time back and I have worked many jobs since that had little or no bearing on licensing. And quite honestly, the license had little bearing on reality even then. Before these powerful "gizmos" came into being. Calculating a machine load is a lengthy process. Having a pencil and paper handy, enumerating each conversion, will aviod a broken heart when things don't work out.

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Lots of things to consider...

Derating of VFD to wire size.

Bottom line is one simple and first task...RTFM...

We have a couple Allen Bradley 1300 series that work very well.

First came in the Bridgeport and second was an Ebay buy for the SB 14.5 Lathe.

Before we purchased we reviewed the manual

There is a table showing things like voltage, motor hp and single or 3 phase.

Find your motor hp, next your voltage then it provides to model to use.

The installation section specifies wire or breaker size if I recall, otherwise it states input current.

The way you match the vfd to motor and manufacturer indicates current needed.

Wire size is standard chart type of item, and if in doubt upside some to allow future upgrade or other uses.

The expensive part is labor and initial material cost.

Upgrading from number 12 to number 10 not very much cost but 50% more ampacity.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 
Y'all are drastically overestimating the complexity, settings and pages in the manual of these eBay VFDs.
 
Unless I missed it no one asked you what size motor?

The actual current will be proportional to the actual motor ( not the VFD‘s maximum rating) and how much actual power the motor is delivering.

In the following explanation, I’m referring to the current as seen by the breaker in the panel and assuming 100% efficiency, in practice it will be a bit higher due to losses in the motor and VFD. That being said under typical use the motor will be outputting a fraction of its rated HP so keep that in mind.

1HP = 746W, so for 120V single phase I=746/120=6.2A
2HP = 1492W, so the current doubles. So 12.4A, and it would likely run on a 15A, 120V circuit with #14 gauge wire, IF the breaker did not trip on the higher current during start-up.


Now when you go to 240V, the current halves, so for the 2HP example, 6.2A, or if you actually have a 3HP motor (running at full power), 9.3A.

So for 240V, a #12 gauge cable with a 20 A breaker is more than sufficient.

if your concerned about safety, consider this example. You have a #14gauge extension cord the type with three receptacles on the end. You plug in a 1500W heater and it will run forever safely. Now your buddy plugs in another 1500W heater and then another, now the extension cord is grossly under rated, the breaker will trip within seconds protecting both the wiring to the receptacle as well as the extension cord.
 
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NEC requirements for VFD's does not factor in what the VFD is driving, it is based only on its input rated current draw. This may have to do with covering all scenarios, and/or VFD fault/errors. Some VFD's can also draw up to 2X it rated current for 60 seconds depending on the programming parameters. It becomes a bit of a grey area as to what is factored in if you plug the VFD into the wall, but everything back from the socket to the breaker needs to meet the NEC rating. That being said, I have run 2 Hp motors with a VFD off of a 20A breaker/12AWG wiring w/o issues.
 
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