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What should I get first?

snyper1982

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#1
I am looking at getting either a Lathe or a Mill. Unsure of which to get first. The machines I am looking at are:

Milling Machine:
Either the PM-25MV with DRO, or the G0759(seems to be the G0704 with DRO)

Similar prices, just not sure which one is better. What do you guys think?

For the Lathe:
The G0602Z (The G0602 with DRO)

I am a total beginner, so I am sorry if these are stupid questions. I am just stuck as to which I should get first. It seems like the mill would be more versatile than the lathe, but like I said, I am a total noob. I think I will probably end up getting the Mill first, I am leaning more towards that. BUt I really want a lathe too... Ahhh. This sucks. I wish I had the cash to just get both right now.

Either way. I would like to hear from some people with experience about which machine I should get first. Also for the mills, which one do you guys think is the better mill? The Grizzly or the Precision Matthews? Is there any online sources or books I should read to help me in getting started in this hobby? What are some good beginner projects that I should work on? I would also like to turn this into a career a some point, so any pointers to help out with that would be appreciated also.

Also what are some of the basic necessity tools for each machine? For the lathe, I know I can get a basic lathe cutting tool set, But I can't find anything similar for the mill. I know I am asking a lot, so any help you guys can give is greatly appreciated.
 

34_40

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#2
Welcome aboard. Nice to see you here.
The only stupid question is the one you don't ask! Don't ever think anyone here will "pick" on you for any question. It's a great group to be a part of.

Now to your question about which is first. That will totally depend on what you want to do! Sounds like a cop out but it is true. For me, an old lathe was available at a price I could afford so that's what got me hooked - once you start down this road, you will always want more.

More machines, more tooling, more more more.. LOL.. But it really comes down to what you want to do. You'll probably end up with both machines (I did) and they each have a place. One of my end goals was to create a small IC engine. So that's what I've been working towards.

What are some of the things you're thinking of doing?
 

samthedog

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#3
I can't comment on the specific machines but can give you some input on what to get first.
I recommend the lathe. It is more forgiving and you only need to worry about 2 axis. There is also a lot of tooling floating around and for most people, a lathe meets most of their machining needs. Add to this that round stock is generally plentiful for practicing which means getting proficient on the lathe is generally cheaper than on a mill.

Here is a recent thread with information:
http://hobby-machinist.com/threads/buying-a-lathe-what-tooling-should-i-get-avoid.63587/

And some more sources of info:
http://www.machinistblog.com/forum/...asic-tools-to-get-started-in-hobby-machining/
http://www.projectsinmetal.com/tool-list-for-the-beginner-amateur-machinist/
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?1323774-Which-indexable-lathe-tools-to-get
 

Eddyde

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#5
Welcome to HM. Fear not to ask any question.
As said above, it does depend somewhat on the types of projects you want to do? However, the Lathe would be my general choice for a first machine. A couple of reasons: you can get started with less additional tooling than a mill.
You can do more kinds of work that cannot be done any other way on a lathe, including some milling, with an attachment.
The lathe was the first machine I learned on and the first machine I bought, it was a couple of decades later that I finally bought a mill.
I would also recommend learning to machine first without the DRO, You will get to know the machines much better and wont be stuck if they break down.
I don't own either of the machines you want to buy but both look like very good choices to get started with. Precision Matthews, gets lots of great reviews here and would be my choice for any new machine purchase.
 

cathead

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#6
First off, welcome to the forum and also to a great hobby.

It won't matter much in the long run. I started out with just a lathe and how have two lathes and two mills and a lot of accessories.
If I had to pick one, it would probably be a lathe though. The machining hobby becomes an evolution and quest to be able to do more
things. The possibilities are seemingly endless only limited by one's imagination and pocketbook.
 

richl

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#7
Welcome!
For me it was a bit different, I purchased a mill, I had a need for the mill, and I looked for a good used one. If you have projects to do specifically need a mill, well, it's a no brainer. But, I do admit, the lathe is a sexy machine, and you will have fun with it after it is all set up and ready to go. Its a bit cheaper to fit up the lathe than a mill. Vise, windmills, facemill, end mill holders... a basic setup for the mill is far more expensive to acquire than the lathe... yes, you can forgo some things, but that really makes the operations you perform a touch more advanced

Buy the biggest lathe you can afford, used you get a lot of bang for your buck. Might be worth it to look around before committing yourself to a small hobby machine. You are in an area of the country that should have machines available within a few hours of you.:encourage:

Something else on looking around, there is a big machinery reseller, they buy and sell old equipment, tooling and such, 3 big warehouses of machinery, it's about 2-3 hours from me, every2-3 months I make the trek down and rummage around looking for something, if nothing else I go to the metal bin and pick up some fixtures, plates metal for near scrap metal prices. Look for places that buy out all the equipment from old shops and resale, you can usually pick up some good deals. If nothing else, if you really enjoy looking at greasy old machines, it's better than going to a museum!

Good luck, happy hunting!
 
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bobshobby

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#8
I am looking at getting either a Lathe or a Mill. Unsure of which to get first. The machines I am looking at are:

Milling Machine:
Either the PM-25MV with DRO, or the G0759(seems to be the G0704 with DRO)

Similar prices, just not sure which one is better. What do you guys think?

For the Lathe:
The G0602Z (The G0602 with DRO)

I am a total beginner, so I am sorry if these are stupid questions. I am just stuck as to which I should get first. It seems like the mill would be more versatile than the lathe, but like I said, I am a total noob. I think I will probably end up getting the Mill first, I am leaning more towards that. BUt I really want a lathe too... Ahhh. This sucks. I wish I had the cash to just get both right now.

Either way. I would like to hear from some people with experience about which machine I should get first. Also for the mills, which one do you guys think is the better mill? The Grizzly or the Precision Matthews? Is there any online sources or books I should read to help me in getting started in this hobby? What are some good beginner projects that I should work on? I would also like to turn this into a career a some point, so any pointers to help out with that would be appreciated also.

Also what are some of the basic necessity tools for each machine? For the lathe, I know I can get a basic lathe cutting tool set, But I can't find anything similar for the mill. I know I am asking a lot, so any help you guys can give is greatly appreciated.
I'm not familiar with those machines, as the brands are not readily available here in downunder, Although they do appear to be similar to some brands that we do have. Quite often the brand name is dealer specific, and an identical machine will be available from another dealer just with a different name. I would also suggest you pay the extra 20% and get a Taiwanese made machine over chinese. They are at least 50% better quality.

However back to your question. I would go for the lathe first. And I would suggest that you get the best you can afford, I also often suggest getting the largest you have room for, without being rediculous of course. Many people start out with a small lathe, only to quickly outgrow it.

With a lathe you can make almost anything, yes some things would be easier on a mill but you can still do them on a lathe. I would dearly love a mill, but simply don't have room for one, and no where to expand. As I am finding out many milling operations can be done on a lathe.

Happy hunting and good luck.

Bob.
 

David S

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#9
It really does depend on what types of things you would like to make right away. In general I would start with a lathe if turning is what you will most encounter. There can be some capability to do some milling with the lathe, but it is limited.

The other thing to consider could be the ability to interchange tooling between the lathe and mill. Compatibility of tapers etc for tooling.

David
 

Uglydog

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#10
snyper1982,
With the new IT format it is difficult to now your general location.
There are occasionally threads here at HM where someone is looking for a Mentor. Consider posting your location. There may be someone just down the street or at least a reasonable driving distance who wouldn't mind spending a day with you doing some hands on.

Daryl
MN
 

Nick Hacking

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#11
As a newbie too, my advice is probably not all that valuable. I started with a lathe: it's a very popular old hobby lathe here in Britain and it didn't take me long to find second-hand milling attachments.

The thing with mills seems to be that the more rigid the spindle and table the better and a milling attachment in a hobby lathe is not all that rigid, so it's a viable solution if you are on a budget and are planning on light milling for small parts. But, now that I've got myself a serious mill, I think that I'd have been better off not spending the money on the lathe attachments and putting it towards the mill.

As others have said, the hobby tends to suck you in and once you have one machine you soon find that you "need" other machines to support it and get the best use from it... grinding wheels, saws of different types, welding kit, plasma torch, measuring equipment, collets... my poor postman must have lugged several cwt of tools up my drive over the past couple of years!

In short: I don't think it matters where or how you start; simply understand that the first purchase is the beginning of the wallet-drain, not the end.

Good luck,

Nick
 

richl

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#12
snyper1982,
With the new IT format it is difficult to now your general location.
There are occasionally threads here at HM where someone is looking for a Mentor. Consider posting your location. There may be someone just down the street or at least a reasonable driving distance who wouldn't mind spending a day with you doing some hands on.

Daryl
MN
That is something I miss about the other forum software, 1 click and you knew the approximate location and types of machines a user has. Now you have to burrow down 2 layers and than the info may not be there... oh well.
 

dlane

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#13
That is something I miss about the other forum software, 1 click and you knew the approximate location and types of machines a user has. Now you have to burrow down 2 layers and than the info may not be there... oh well.
Me too,

Ied go with a lathe first.
 

Glenn Brooks

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#14
I would go with a lathe also. Actually I bought a mill first - never used it much until after I bought a lathe.

Something to consider - check around your area and see if some community college offers a night machining class. I took a one semester basic lathe class early on, at one of our local CC's and enjoyed it immensely. Two nights a week. I learned a tremendous amount and picked up good technique. Got me started in machining quickly, and I was much better informed about buying equipment afterward, as I had a bit of experience to help make decisions.

Grizzly and PM both make decent machines. My guess is you will wish you had bought bigger machines after working with the ones you mentioned. Although, depends on what you want to make.

Glenn
 

terrywerm

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#15
First, welcome to H-M!!

I believe you might like the lathe better for your first machine. Learning the basics of machining on it will teach you so much about how metal is worked and how it cuts. There are many basic projects that you can make using only a lathe, and as others have pointed out, you can get tooled up for less initial investment. DROs are nice, but you will want to also learn how to work without it in case the need ever arises.

A book that I can highly recommend, even though it was written long ago, is Machine Shop Practice by K. H. Moltrecht. There are two volumes in the set and they can be purchased from MSC and other vendors I am sure.
 

BGHansen

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#16
Welcome to the Hobby Machinist forum! Like mentioned above, no bad questions here.

I'd go with the lathe first, like probably about everyone above mentioned. Once you get the bug, look for the mill. Expect to spend about as much on accessories as you did for the original machine. If you buy used American iron in good shape, you will not lose your money. Machine tools depreciate to a certain level and stay there unless they're worn out or broken. A lot of old American iron was designed for production work, way beyond the use of most of us on this forum. If you decide to sell for upgrading or whatever in the future, you'll get your money back.

Bruce
 

snyper1982

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#17
Welcome aboard. Nice to see you here.
The only stupid question is the one you don't ask! Don't ever think anyone here will "pick" on you for any question. It's a great group to be a part of.

Now to your question about which is first. That will totally depend on what you want to do! Sounds like a cop out but it is true. For me, an old lathe was available at a price I could afford so that's what got me hooked - once you start down this road, you will always want more.

More machines, more tooling, more more more.. LOL.. But it really comes down to what you want to do. You'll probably end up with both machines (I did) and they each have a place. One of my end goals was to create a small IC engine. So that's what I've been working towards.

What are some of the things you're thinking of doing?
Therein lies the problem. There are just so many things I want to do. I would like to build model steam engines, mini IC engines. Fireworks tooling. Tools for woodworking. I undoubtedly will be getting both machines, I am just unsure of how to proceed in the beginning. It seems like the mill can replicate some of the lathe operations to a very limited degree. For instance, I could turn an OD with a boring head, and bore and ID as well. I'm just not sure the lathe can really replicate the Mill.

What about a dual machine like the G0156 or the G9729?

Also. What type of tooling should I be looking at for each machine? I'm thinking just basic beginner tooling. For the lathe, I'd need a cut off tool, a center drill, boring bar, a cutting tool set, knurling tool, etc. Anything else I will need? Id also like to cut threads, not sure if I will need any special tooling for that.

The milling machine is where I really get lost. I will want a boring head, and boring bar. I will definitely want a milling vice. Taps, end mill assortment (unsure, do I need more than one?), face mills (again, do I need an assortment of these?), Fly cutter (is this the same as a face mill?), dovetail cutters, clamping kit, etc. I am quite sure I am missing a ton of stuff.

As for the mill, which machine do you think is better? The grizzly or PM?
 

34_40

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#18
There are many of us here that are toolaholics.. Yes. My name is Mike and I am a ... well, you got the idea.

We all want to be able to work with our machines, and that takes tooling. But you don't have to get all of it today! :cool:

I really don't like a combo machine, it's always a compromise. But having said that I have seen a couple projects done that just amaze me to know they were crafted on a combo unit! The others here have given great advice. Especially doing a couple classes locally, you would learn some technique and be able to network with others with the same desire and maybe get a lead on a machine. Having the contacts will always be a good thing.
 

Eddyde

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#19
IMHO, from the projects you described a Lathe is definitely the way to start. While neither machine can fully replace the other, the lathe can mill better than a mill can do lathe work but the work envelope is smaller. If you were going to "turn" on a mill you should consider a rotary table, which would work much better for outside radiuses than trying to use a boring head. Also, a mill cannot thread, except for tapping holes. If I could have only have one of the two it would be a lathe, hands down.
I am not a fan of the combo machines either, but if you really want to jump in with both machines it may be an economical compromise. If you were going to go that route, look into getting a used Smithy Granite, much better machine than the Grizzly offerings, they occaisonally come up on Craigslist usually with a lot of tooling for much less than the cost of new.
Also you mentioned fireworks tooling, if you want to make solid fuel engine molds, you will need a lathe with a taper attachment.
 

tweinke

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#21
I would figure out a general size of the things you are or may be interested in making, figure your budget remembering you will need at least basic tooling and measuring devices. Find machines that meet or exceed what you need for size. Browse every reputable tool venders machines and tools. Verify what the budget actually is. Ask questions here about various machines ( this is where we will help you blow the budget to pieces) Then make your best decision on which machine or machines to buy. I started with a 3in1 machine and still have it, It will make things but is a compromise in a lot of ways. If it were me in your shoes separate machines will be more conducive to learning and easier to operate in the long run. As for brand PM has a very nice 10x22 or 10x30 lathe and the PM25 would not need much in the way of upgrades vs the G704 (my two cents). But make sure you start with machines that fit the size work you would like to do even if you have to wait for the second machine.
 

Chipper5783

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#22
It seems like you have an opinion poll going here. As others have said it there is a specific requirement, then buy the machine that will perform that task.

For general machining stuff - to start with, get a lathe. As has been pointed out numerous times above (and in many previous threads), get the biggest and best lathe you can manage (with in reason). If there is anyway you can "swing it" - blow your entire budget on that lathe (plus any fun money you have on hand). Get the core items that really only come with the machine when you purchase it (such as the TTA and steadies). You should get one 4J chuck, a drill chuck for the tailstock and one toolholder (plus what ever else you can get thrown in) - but don't sweat all that other stuff that you can get later one piece at a time (more chucks, carriage and tailstock tooling, DRO etc. - there is no end to the stuff you can add on).

The only way to add capacity is to purchase another lathe (which of course is a good idea - I have two and I'm looking for another one, I don't do any very large jobs, but I have been right on the edge of the 15" swing & 21" in the gap quite a few times). I have a very cute 11x24 lathe - the only time it get used is with the bigger one has a job set up or for threading to a shoulder as it will go down to 30 rpm and allows shift on the fly. I got the small lathe because it was just so cool, but the larger machine is more versatile. I'm like you, my machining is a bit of this and a bit of that, not big stuff, not small stuff. I'm a hobby guy, and for the first 25 years, all I had was that 15" - I've gone nuts over the past few years, but that's what happens if you stay in this game.

That G0602 is a 10x22 lathe. It depends on your requirements - but that will get eaten up real fast. Also, it only has a 1" bore, common threading and feed rod, and a threaded spindle. The lowest speed is 150 rpm (I think is way too fast - try cutting a 1/2" - 13 tpi thread and you'll grow gray hair pretty quick). Even going up to a 12" lathe opens up a lot more options.

Caveat: if some one offers you a good working mill for $5, then take it!

Let us know what you decide on. David
 

tq60

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#23
You can mill in a lathe but difficult to lathe or turn with a mill.

Good mill used are scarce as hens teeth so set a budget and start saving while looking.

Lathes show up everywhere for all price points so look at Craigslist in a 200 mile radius and read every add and touch as many as you can as it is like shopping for a used car.

You will learn the local market price and what to expect.

Older south bend or Logan can be picked up for a song if ugly and dirty and make great entry point tools.

We have went through maybe 8 or 12 to get our current 2 that we use and 2 we do not.

While looking keep eye out for a mill but they usually go fast if priced right.
 

ttabbal

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#24
I just ordered a PM 1127VF-LB. I was initially considering a 10x30, but after the advice here, decided that there were enough upgrades other than work envelope that it was worth it.

I'm sure I'll end up doing light milling on it, but I'm convinced getting the lathe first is the right way to go.
 

Aukai

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#25
Welcome to the chicken or the egg decision. I needed a good drill press, so got a G0755 Grizzly instead, then I learned about Precision Machine (Matt), and when it was time I liked the service, and good feed back, so I got a 1228VF-LB. Good group here, your in good hands.
 

bobshobby

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#26
Therein lies the problem. There are just so many things I want to do. I would like to build model steam engines, mini IC engines. Fireworks tooling. Tools for woodworking. I undoubtedly will be getting both machines, I am just unsure of how to proceed in the beginning. It seems like the mill can replicate some of the lathe operations to a very limited degree. For instance, I could turn an OD with a boring head, and bore and ID as well. I'm just not sure the lathe can really replicate the Mill.

What about a dual machine like the G0156 or the G9729?

Also. What type of tooling should I be looking at for each machine? I'm thinking just basic beginner tooling. For the lathe, I'd need a cut off tool, a center drill, boring bar, a cutting tool set, knurling tool, etc. Anything else I will need? Id also like to cut threads, not sure if I will need any special tooling for that.

The milling machine is where I really get lost. I will want a boring head, and boring bar. I will definitely want a milling vice. Taps, end mill assortment (unsure, do I need more than one?), face mills (again, do I need an assortment of these?), Fly cutter (is this the same as a face mill?), dovetail cutters, clamping kit, etc. I am quite sure I am missing a ton of stuff.

As for the mill, which machine do you think is better? The grizzly or PM?
Both those machines are pretty light weight. Although I'm not familiar with either of them, just going by the specs. As many people have found a dual purpose machine is at best a compromise generally not doing either very well.

From the list of things you want to I don't think the machines you have mentioned so far are big enough. Have you had a look at the designs for these projects. The model steam engines usually have quite sizable flywheels, your lateh will need to be able to fit them.

I would be looking at a 12x 20 as a minimum. I know my own lathe is a 12 x 16 but I have a space limitation and I definately wanted min 12" dia swing, so had to get the shorter bed. If I had the room I would have gone for a 14 x 36 with gap bed, but no room.
Also don't ever think you can't do milling operations on a lathe, by mounting parts in a chuck or on a face plate, you can face off flat surfaces. You can even mount parts on the crosslide and put milling cutters in holders that fit the lathe spindle. A lathe can be modified to be a useful milling machine. You just have to think about it. Finally as others have said check out your local tech or high schools for suitable classes.

Bob.
 

snyper1982

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#27
I should note, I have a hard limit of 3k. That includes shipping and tooling. Obviously that is for this initial purchase, I will continue buying new tooling, and new machines. I like the precision Matthews, but they are a little bit out of my price range. I also am convinced that separate machines are the way to go. I was just curious if anyone else had any experience with combo machines.

With regard to the firework tooling, and a lathe with a taper attachment, I though I could cut a taper with the cross slide?
 

snyper1982

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#28
Both those machines are pretty light weight. Although I'm not familiar with either of them, just going by the specs. As many people have found a dual purpose machine is at best a compromise generally not doing either very well.

From the list of things you want to I don't think the machines you have mentioned so far are big enough. Have you had a look at the designs for these projects. The model steam engines usually have quite sizable flywheels, your lateh will need to be able to fit them.

I would be looking at a 12x 20 as a minimum. I know my own lathe is a 12 x 16 but I have a space limitation and I definately wanted min 12" dia swing, so had to get the shorter bed. If I had the room I would have gone for a 14 x 36 with gap bed, but no room.
Also don't ever think you can't do milling operations on a lathe, by mounting parts in a chuck or on a face plate, you can face off flat surfaces. You can even mount parts on the crosslide and put milling cutters in holders that fit the lathe spindle. A lathe can be modified to be a useful milling machine. You just have to think about it. Finally as others have said check out your local tech or high schools for suitable classes.

Bob.
I just signed up for the local JC. Trying to get enrolled for next semester. I would love to get a larger lathe, but I just don't have the money for it right now. really, a 10" is going to be the best I can do for at least a couple years. I am sure I will upgrade to a lager space and lathe after a while, but for now I think I am stuck with a 10", not JUST because of the money, but space limitations also.

I am glad to hear I will be able to do some milling operations on the lathe. But I really look forward to having both.

Just a side note, is there any ways to actually use the lathe to supplement my income? Help pay for an upgrade and possibly a mill? That would be awesome.
 

snyper1982

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#29
Welcome!

Buy the biggest lathe you can afford, used you get a lot of bang for your buck. Might be worth it to look around before committing yourself to a small hobby machine. You are in an area of the country that should have machines available within a few hours of you.:encourage:


Good luck, happy hunting!
You might think... I have been looking on craigslist, but can never seem to find any decent deals. Anytime I do see a good deal, it is for a machine WAY to large for me. Maybe there are some other places I can check out to buy used? Any ideas?
 

snyper1982

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#30
snyper1982,
With the new IT format it is difficult to now your general location.
There are occasionally threads here at HM where someone is looking for a Mentor. Consider posting your location. There may be someone just down the street or at least a reasonable driving distance who wouldn't mind spending a day with you doing some hands on.

Daryl
MN

Oh. I am in Modesto, California. A mentor would be awesome!
 
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