What kind of mill do I need/want/afford?

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Rudy_R

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I'm still relatively new to the machining world. I've been watching all the usual suspects on the Youtube for years now. Have picked up a lot of tips and tricks, and have always admired what folks are able to create in their own shop. Last year I picked up a small turret lathe. Though it's not made any chips yet, it's getting closer to that point.

Though I'm sure there's lots of stuff I can accomplish with my drill presses, welder, grinders, band saw and lathe, there's still the hole in the tools collection of not having a mill. Being able to make surfaces relatively smooth, flat and parallel would sure be handy. Being able to cut keyways and make splines in shafts would open up more possibilities for projects I could do myself, instead of relying on being able to buy exactly what I need, or paying a machine shop to do it for me.

So, the question is, what do I keep my eyes open for? Horizontal mill, vertical mill, benchtop, floorstanding, mill/drill? How much am I looking at spending? How big of a table is useful? What kind of spindle attachments is most common/affordable? R8, 40, 50? Is a rotary table a must?

I'm in Southern Ontario, around Guelph and Waterloo Region, so there does seem to be a fair amount of selection of used stuff. I'm not scared to drive a little for the right deal. All seems to be in the range of about $1000 - $5000. Some with lots of tooling, some with a little tooling, most with none. Idealy, whatever I get will be 120v or 240v, single or three phase. There's lots of stuff running 600V, and I'd rather not run a step up transformer and a VFD. That gets pretty expensive.
 
I'd consider first thinking about the size of the parts you want to make.
If you are making things that you can lift and carry with one hand (or smaller) then your work envelope and needs are possibly different than if you are working on things which might require a hoist to get in the vise/chuck.
Also, think about your tolerances. A piece of paper is about .004 that or even larger might be just great for some applications. However, if you are thinking about consistently chasing .0005 then your needs are likely very different.
Many of us are somewhere in the middle. There are machines for that as well.
First consider what your short and long term goals might be.

Daryl
Mn
 
Hi Rudy,

I'd stay away from a mill/drill, just because you have to tram the head every time you raise or lower it. A horizontal mill would be a good future addition to a vertical mill, but I'd look for a vertical to start. If you have the room, I would go with the biggest knee mill you can handle. You will soon outgrow a bench top mill. Something with a quill, like a Bridgeport, with an R8 spindle will be easier to find tooling for. Power feeds are nice, and give a much better finish than hand cranking. When I first was looking for a mill, about 8 years ago, I was determined to buy a Bridgeport mill. I looked a a few, but they were all worn out. A fellow answered my ad "looking for a mill" and said that he had an Italian made mill, Rambaudi, for sale. When I went to look at it, it was huge... !!! I thought that it was waaayyy too much mill for a beginner. He convinced me that I'd never look back once I figured out the controls. It is 3 phase 220v, so I ended up buying a rotary phase converter.

IMGP1372 (600x800).jpg

The table on this mill is 12" x 50" or so, with power feeds in all axis, as well as rapid traverse, Loads of room under the quill for big parts. I am so glad that I bought this mill instead of a Bridgeport because of all the power feeds alone. So, don't be afraid to buy something with a foreign name on it, if it does what you need. You'll have to answer all of your own questions, but hopefully my reply will give you some food for thought.

Brian :)
 
Basically, I'm gonna be looking at getting something easy on the wallet to start. I expect that I will be "upgrading" not that long after. It helps justify it with the wife. She'd probably have my head if she found out I'm even thinking about this kind of thing right now. #2 kid on the way, ended up in hospital for stress related problems, and a huge amount of projects on the list for at home. But she doesn't understand that the shop is where the stress floats away. Making things is a creative outlet. So, I need to keep an eye out for stuff that's a great price, then when she sees that I actually use it, and what I can do with it, she's more open to putting a bit more in. She knows I always make sure I'm getting a fair deal.

I'm essentially looking for something that will be capable enough to make some parts that would be easy to handle single handed. Maybe two handed the odd time. Not looking at machining anything heavy. I make stuff for around the house, and to repair all my old crap that I have. Nothing that needs super tight tolerances at this point, just better than a hacksaw and a grinder. Right now, one of the projects I'm planning on doing is mounting the snowblower on the front of my tractor. Already have a hydraulic 3 point hitch that will work perfectly, but will need to make all the stuff to hook it up as it's from a different model tractor.... and 5 decades apart. A mill could come in handy, as I will be bringing the PTO shaft from the back, to the front. I think I can buy some of the stuff I need off the shelf, but would like to be able to make anything that I can't buy. Ten thousandths precision isn't what I'm aiming for at this point, as I know even with a brand new fancy machine the work will still be only as good as the operator, and my experience is pretty close to nothing. Would like a machine that is capable of more than me right now, but won't be a source of frustration after my first project. A medium sized knee mill sounds like a good choice. But the problem is finding one that the wife ain't gonna just shoot down. I do have about 5 motorcycles that I need to sell, so possibly some of that $$$ could be put towards a mill. How much would be dictated by when I sell them, and how much I get.
 
My mill/drill and I didn't get along very well. I took a beating when I sold her but was glad to see her gone.
Having said that, she was a gateway machine which convinced me that I wanted a real mill. A sentiment I wouldn't have known had she not passed through my shop.
Should you stumble on a shaper, they often sell cheap. Much less money than a mill. And easier and cheaper to tool up.
You might consider one should one present itself. Especially as you already have a DP.
I enjoy my horizontal mill. But, most people will opt for a vertical.
How much floor space do you have?
What do you have for power?
Many mills and larger lathes run 3phase.
Consider how many amps you can push to your shop. That includes length of run from the box and the gauge and type of wire.
While even a 2hp mill doesn't pull much be sure that you can support the demand or build that into your budget.
Additionally, consider your floor. How thick is your slab, is it reinforced well?
What is your ceiling height? Door clearance? Do you have a plan for moving a 3000# mill? Is a 1500# mill a safer venture?
Don't get hung up on brand names. There are many good mills that don't say Bridgeport on the label.
On the other hand, should you need parts for some of the more obscure out of production machines, you may end up enjoying the process of making your own parts.


Daryl
MN
 
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You've gotten some good advice here, but one other point that needs to be considered is tooling. Tooling for a mill can easily exceed the cost of the mill, so when you start your search for the mill just realize that any included tooling (or lack thereof ) can be a significant factor in the deal.

Ted
 
Hi Rudy
There is a nice Victoria Mill Kijiji in your back yard in Lucknow. You would need to run a phase converter and a 550 volt transformer. I watch Kijiji all the time and there is some pretty good used machinery up in your neck of the woods.
Cheers
Martin
 
Daryl. I had in mind that a mill/drill would probably be a source of frustration as well. I've spent the last year keeping my eyes peeled for a shaper. Only a few that I've seen. One expensive one that I think is still listed, and one that was part of an auction lot that the owner was in no mood to send a better picture or answer any questions. It was buried under a load of junk in the picture, and the auction was on a day that I wasn't around. :( I would be more than fine with just a decent shaper, the only problem is finding one. Mills are easy to find.

As for the shop, I've got more than a lot of folks. Last year I built an insulated 2000 sq.ft. shop next to the house. 10x9 foot doors. Vaulted ceiling from 10 to 14 feet in the center (to eventually fit the lift I want). 100 amp 120/240 coming off the house's 200 amp service. The heated slab is scheduled to go in this spring. The lathe will run on a VFD, which I already have. I'm more of a fan of a VFD than a phase converter. We have built and fixed MANY different kinds of phase converters at work, and they do all tend to have problems within a certain time span. Capacitors and contactors seem to go regularly, and it would require more wire for 3 phase distribution.

1500 lbs is certainly more manageable than 3000 lbs. I don't have anything for moving something of that size as of yet. The neighbor does have a big backhoe I may be able to borrow for an afternoon. That is more or less the plan when I bring the lathe home.

I'm not in a rush to get something "right now", as I don't have anywhere to put it until the floor in the shop is done. I've already got my lathe stored at work in the shop. A lathe and a mill might be pushing my luck slightly. But, if something came up that was such a great deal, I'm sure I could find somewhere to stash it for a bit. Even just on the trailer parked in my shop.

Martin. I saw that one yesterday. I did catch my eye.
 
What about something like the grizzly g0755 it's like a mill drill but with a square column for around 3000 I have a round column mill drill but may get this in the future I would love a Bridgeport or the like but in my area they are very very rare and often old machines start around 5000 just a thought if your not an experienced machinist buying an old machine that needs work might be a exercise in frustration
 
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