What Is A ==========

Yup been there ,had to train several engineers fresh out of collage how things really work in the field .
I'ed look over there papers, highlight what won't work then show them why. Some liked it some didn't.
They were probably paid more than me, but whatever it took to get things working rite was my job.
 
Why does a discussion like this turn into a "lets bash the engineer" tirade. During my career I didn't spend a lot of time beating up the mechanics, assemblers, service tech's, welders and MACHINISTS when something didn't go according to plan. I am here to learn how to machine parts, fix/run equipment, not to read posts about how bad I am because of the job I did to earn a living. I bought my first welder 2 years after I graduated from engineering school for several reasons. First and foremost I wanted to be able to fabricate parts for my car hobby but I also wanted to have a better understanding of the welding/fabricating processes as I was designing undergrounding mining equipment which had many welded structures (frames, buckets, loader booms and linkages, etc.). I am a "seat of the pants" fabricator and also, I guess, engineer. I purchased my mill and lathe to better understand the machining process by doing it myself. I am not experienced at machining and at my age I won't have enough time to get really good at it but I have a lot of fun non the less. To visualize a design I have to use a computer as I just don't get the paper thing. That's neither good nor bad, it's just how it works for me. I don't put down people that use paper just because it doesn't work for me. I can't help it if you had a bad experience with an engineer sometime in your working career but don't automatically rubber stamp them all as a result. I've had mechanic's berate me for the way I designed something but they also had never been in a mine and actually saw how the machine was used. What might have made their job difficult was required to make the machine survive in the field. If it broke they called me to fix the problem, not the guy on the line who built it, so I had to be happy with the design. It was my ass on the line, not theirs.

Sorry for the rant.
 
My apologies to you Sanddan. It was not my intent to even mention the engineering end of the spectrum. I will stay on top of it from here till the thread ends. To the rest of you, keep this on topic. Thank you.

"Billy G"
 
I for one don't believe that anybody can learn anything. You are born with gifts endowed from on high. You must develop them. Beethoven received the gift of music. My father was a great musician who spent years trying to teach his son music and regardless of how hard he tried it wasn't gelling yet my sons picked it up lickety split. I on the other hand I can fix mechanical things without effort. It just comes natural. I would drive dad crazy tearing down his transmission or whatever and throw all the parts in the solvent tank without labels on them. He wanted each piece to have its own envelope with a description of where it came from. I would say "dad, if you know what the part does then where it goes is easy." Just as dad honed his gift of music and others throughout his life, I have honed my several gifts which don't include music though I still have my guitars and play a little for myself.
 
There is a learning curve for any job , no one comes out of collage knowing everything about everything, although some thought they did. Some of the fresh out of collage folks were thankfull for the real world advice I gave them and some weren't, they didn't last long.
This was at a plant that employed 7500 people. I was a maintenance tech for r&d labs and was known to think out of the box to make something work correctly
 
sanddan said:
Why does a discussion like this turn into a "lets bash the engineer" tirade. During my career I didn't spend a lot of time beating up the mechanics, assemblers, service tech's, welders and MACHINISTS when something didn't go according to plan. I am here to learn how to machine parts, fix/run equipment, not to read posts about how bad I am because of the job I did to earn a living. I bought my first welder 2 years after I graduated from engineering school for several reasons. First and foremost I wanted to be able to fabricate parts for my car hobby but I also wanted to have a better understanding of the welding/fabricating processes as I was designing undergrounding mining equipment which had many welded structures (frames, buckets, loader booms and linkages, etc.). I am a "seat of the pants" fabricator and also, I guess, engineer. I purchased my mill and lathe to better understand the machining process by doing it myself. I am not experienced at machining and at my age I won't have enough time to get really good at it but I have a lot of fun non the less. To visualize a design I have to use a computer as I just don't get the paper thing. That's neither good nor bad, it's just how it works for me. I don't put down people that use paper just because it doesn't work for me. I can't help it if you had a bad experience with an engineer sometime in your working career but don't automatically rubber stamp them all as a result. I've had mechanic's berate me for the way I designed something but they also had never been in a mine and actually saw how the machine was used. What might have made their job difficult was required to make the machine survive in the field. If it broke they called me to fix the problem, not the guy on the line who built it, so I had to be happy with the design. It was my ass on the line, not theirs.

Sorry for the rant.
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I think I can answer your question. I am an educated man, I hav a BA in Psychology, BS in Sports Medicine and am half way through my Masters. I have 35 years of practical experience and grew up with a father that was an Architect. I work in construction and deal with Architects and Engineers every day. The problem comes when an engineer does not fully think out a situation, but applies their standard solution figuring that even if it overbuilt it will work. When you try to have an intelligent informed discussion about the issue with their solution you get comments like "when you get your stamp you can do what you want, until then do it the way I want". That is completely unacceptable way to treat anyone. This was a conversation I had yesterday. My boss overheard the comment and told the guy he could work out a solution or his firm would be fired effective immediately. It is a $50 Million contract, so the engineer finally listened and accepted my modification. This is an interaction that is more common than not, which gives all engineers a bad name.
 
Common sense (seat of the pants) dose not come from college last time I checked ,
I've known people that were common sense smart that went to collage and came out real world dumb with a paper saying they were smart .
I'm over it to,
 
OK, I have had time to go over this entire thread, Some posts have been deleted. They were the beginning of the bashing. It was my call I made it. I now reopen this thread in hopes it will prosper. This thread has proven that it can be quite controversial when old memories are awakened. Some are good some are bad, so please remember, as innocent as you think the post may be, it can still hurt others.

"Billy G"
 
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