Von Wyck 4.5 Morse Taper Spindle Taper Problems

I heard from Dutch who says his old Von wyck had a. 5mt stub taper

The 1.5 inch end measurement of the spindle could be the large end of 4.5mt or a 12 jarno, or the smaller end of a 5mt

I need advice on the best way to measure the inside of the spindle. I don't think I am doing this accurately enough




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A while back I ebay'd an assorted lot of spindle adapters in the hopes of whittling one down for the proprietary South Bend spindle. If you can get me some accurate measurements, I'll see if I have anything that fits.
 
Would it have been common to "mix" tApers on a machine? Ie jarno on spindle and mt 3 on tail? I'm


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It's possible. It's also possible someone has altered the tailstock taper to a morse taper.
A number of early built lathes had Jarno tapers instead of MT's. Morse tapers were primarly for drills and drilling machines. Brown and Sharpe tapers were used on milling machines, and Jarno taper were used on a few lathes. Not always the case, but started that way. Jarno tapers were also common on early cylindrical grinders, too. The Morse tapers pretty much obsoleted the Jarno taper going into the 20th century.

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It's possible. It's also possible someone has altered the tailstock taper to a morse taper.
A number of early built lathes had Jarno tapers instead of MT's. Morse tapers were primarly for drills and drilling machines. Brown and Sharpe tapers were used on milling machines, and Jarno taper were used on a few lathes. Not always the case, but started that way. Jarno tapers were also common on early cylindrical grinders, too. The Morse tapers pretty much obsoleted the Jarno taper going into the 20th century.

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I had a Norton universal cylindrical grinder from the late 1960s, and it still used the Jarno taper on the head and tailstocks; I think most all grinders used it and likely still do. I think it is a good thing to prevent the unwashed from putting things into the tapers that do not belong there, negatively effecting the accuracy of the tapers.[/QUOTE]
 
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I heard from Dutch who says his old Von wyck had a. 5mt stub taper

The 1.5 inch end measurement of the spindle could be the large end of 4.5mt or a 12 jarno, or the smaller end of a 5mt

I need advice on the best way to measure the inside of the spindle. I don't think I am doing this accurately enough




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I think the first thing to do is to get an accurate measurement of the existing taper. Accurate. You will never be able to identify, re-cut, or repair your spindle taper if you cannot measure it accurately before, during, and after reworking it. Making and repairing good tapers in lathe spindles is not an easy job, even cleaning one up with a reamer can establish a taper that is not concentric with the lathe center line.
 
Suggestions on measuring technique? Trick is to know exact where you took the two measurement . Gage ball technique seems easiest and most accurate but need to find balls larger than 1 inch


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Use a magnetic back indicator on your bed ways, touching the carriage. Make sure the indicator stem is parallel with the ways. Mount a DTI to your tool post. Set the carriage reading indicator to an even number. Adjust the DTI to zero. Move the indicator out of the spindle a small amount, then move it back inward, and zero again with the backlash out. Move the carriage one inch into the taper. Read and record the DTI again. The travel of the indicator in one inch is half of the taper per inch of the taper. Compare with published charts for different tapers until you have a match.
 
I will give that a go, I appreciate the instructions


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If the DTI is not perfectly on the centre line of the spindle your readings will be out.

Greg
 
I'm not sure how common mixing tapers was, but it certainly was an available option on some machines. I have the same era Seneca Falls Star #20 lathe. It could have been ordered from the factory with either Jarno or Morse tapers, or any combination of both. Mine has Morse on both the head and tailstock. I do know of several others that have Morse on the headstock and Jarno on the tailstock
 
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