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Vehicle circulation water pump housing built, need advice.

Discussion in 'QUESTIONS & ANSWERS (Get Help Fast Here!)' started by GoceKU, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. GoceKU

    GoceKU Macedonia Active Member Active Member

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    I need to build a calculation pump on 12v for a webasto heating system, for longevity reason i've chosen to use an proper water pump from an car but i can't use the housing because is part of the engine block, therefore i'll like some advice if someone has built or has some experience with this style of water pumps?
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  2. Groundhog

    Groundhog United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Never made a water pump, mostly just bored and thought I'd type something ...,
    At this point it probably would be better to be looking at the pump part engine block (because that is the part you are trying to reproduce).
    I would make as many measurements as possible, of course paying particular attention diameter & depth of pump cavity - (is it round?), o-ring and stud positions, any "swirls" in the bottom, etc. But don't overlook to inlet and outlet designs and positions as well as length and diameter of immediate straight sections of inlet and outlet paths.
    It will probably work pretty good without being an exact copy of the engine block, but the closer the better! I believe (unlike many others) that most times that the engineering the professionals produce is probably a good balance between longevity, function and cost. You might make it work a little better, but you have a lot better chance of screwing it up!
     
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  3. cascao

    cascao Active User Active Member

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    Maybe a motorcycle one will be easyer to use since it is only part of right cover not entire engine.
     
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  4. RandyWilson

    RandyWilson United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Experience in how the operate, yes. That particular pump will require machining the coned wall that matches the impeller taper. I would suggest looking for a complete self-contained pump such as what Ford used on some of their quad-cam V6s, or at least a catridge pump like the BMW M44 (98 318i for example)
     
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  5. cascao

    cascao Active User Active Member

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    Or a intecooler water pump....
     
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  6. T Bredehoft

    T Bredehoft Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    A pump I'm familiar with required that the end clearance (between the end of the vanes and the back of the cavity) be as little as possible. Part prints indicated that max was .015, .005 would be much better, but we (the owners of survivors built 60 to 70 years ago) determined that manufacturing specs couldn't be held that closely. We found that rebuilt pumps were assembled to have nearer 1/16 clearance, and didn't really cool the engine. We soon learned how to adjust the vanes on the shaft (heat and pull with a bearing puller, try for fit, do again, etc.) Certainly there are other constraints, too. If I had an old Studebaker water pump I'd send it to you. They are independent of the block.
     
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  7. GoceKU

    GoceKU Macedonia Active Member Active Member

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    I went looking for a more suitable pump ether an complete or smaller but only thing i found is an old washing machine pump which i have no intention of using that left me to continue with the one i've got, first i centered clamped and welded the coupler to the pulley then i cut of the pulley to remove as much rotating mass as i can, i also cut down the mounting flange to make it smaller, i'll update this thread as i make progress, maybe someone will need to make one and this will help.
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  8. greatbasinind

    greatbasinind United States Iron Registered Member

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    We have used older Chevrolet pumps and drove them using a belt. Make plates suitable to go where it bolts to the block. Also the pump needs equal or positive pressure.
     
  9. rick9345

    rick9345 United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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  10. grumpygator

    grumpygator United States Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    2004-2009 Toyota Prius 12 volt water pump on E-bay about $56.00
    Or go to the scrap yard and pull one out for about $20.00
    **G**
     
  11. GoceKU

    GoceKU Macedonia Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks for the suggestions, i'm in europe, no chevy or prius in junk yards here and more to the point its all about the challenge to build something from nothing.
     
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  12. GoceKU

    GoceKU Macedonia Active Member Active Member

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    I started on the pump housing, one of the more difficult thing was drilling this sideways hole, the plan is to have weld on the side port and to make the entry port bolt in with an o ring, i need to buy a bigger drill to enlarge the side port, more to come.
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  13. fixit

    fixit United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The inlet should be toward the center of the impeller the outlet on the circumference. This type of pump is not positive displacement it only increases the speed of the medium (water, air, oil, etc) to develop pressure at the outlet. Look at a auto motor, washing machine or boat motor pump the liquid enters at or near the center of the impeller & exits at the circumference.

    fixit
     
  14. GoceKU

    GoceKU Macedonia Active Member Active Member

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    The pump i'm using is from an car engine, peticualy peugeot TU3 engine, and the housing is design like you've described it, and i plan to copy it, in steel, i want to experiment with aluminium casting, so i may try casting a blank and try machining it later.
     
  15. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    It sounds like you are creating or repairing a heating system for an rv.

    There are common parts off the shelf for this but likely expensive.

    Other options could be to look for and use or modify a pump from household heating system that uses piped water for heat.

    HP of motor is usually small so inverter would allow simple and clean installation as the unit is designed for continuous duty over long service life and should be easy to find and or order.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
     
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  16. GoceKU

    GoceKU Macedonia Active Member Active Member

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    tq60, is for webasto heating system, it uses diesel fuel and very little electricity to heat up the engine and entire coolant system on diesel vehicles, and this pump will be a permanent part of the cooling system which means all day when the car is running is at 90 degree centigrade, and i don't want to have overheating issues because of failure at the pump, if i use an household pump and inverter it will drain my battery, so no matter how hot the engine is ill want be able to turn it over.
     
  17. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    In the us those are common on high end motor homes so parts are readily available.

    But cost $$$ because they can.

    Using an inverter will not be battery issue but the motor will.

    Current inverters have very low overhead meaning watts out to the load is almost same as watts in from battery.

    Difference of small percent.

    So you can make a device that takes up lots of space and due to "home engineering" will likely be less efficient than a purpose designed unit or you could buy the specific designed part for RV for easy plug and play or you could look at home use devices.

    One could add a specific function battery as well as properly sizing the inverter as the motor size would be small.

    For this application forget about power losses as whatever is used will eat the capacity of the battery.

    Look for a "system" that pumps the required amount of water that will handle the operating conditions that uses the least amount of energy at whatever supply voltage is available then build the power supply.

    This is very old school stuff.

    Look at irv2.com which is a site for rv folks and you can search there for additional information for your system as they are common items.

    Last place to look would be rv salvage.

    Read above again...

    When engine is running the engine pump should handle flow so overheat should not be issue.

    And alternator operating so no reasonable limit related to power consumption.

    Only concern is when parked and that can be solved by simple and proper design.
    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
    Ko
     
  18. GoceKU

    GoceKU Macedonia Active Member Active Member

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    tq60, i appreciate all the advices, i'm in macedonia here we do not have RVs at all, the webasto heater is used on cold mornings to preheat the engine and insides, and if the weather is too cold, it allows you to have heating without running the engine, here is a link, this is not my video, but shows the same unit i have, but i'm missing the circulation pump: as for the car battery is only 66 ah from which the glow plugs and starter motor need all of them to overcome the 23,5 bar per cylinder compression.
     
  19. tq60

    tq60 United States Active Member Active Member

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    You will need additional battery for the pump system.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
     

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