-
Welcome back Guest! Did you know you can mentor other members here at H-M? If not, please check out our Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program!
Tooling up a mill
- Thread starter Old Iron
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2011
- Messages
- 8,031
Especially on larger end mills, you will see a Weldon shank....one with a flat or flats. These are designed to be used in holders rather than collets. Main disadvantage is length. You lose part of your work envelope with holders compared to collets. Collets are fine for small end mills, and even larger ones if you aren't really pushing them.
I never use collets for drills. Should they spin, they can scar up the collet, and destroy their accuracy. Drill shanks are not very precise anyway, and a good chuck will hold them just fine, and bite into them, since they are soft.
So, back to your question. Get a full set of collets, and a few larger end mill holders. Get a boring head. Get a face mill. Get/make a flycutter. Get a good drill chuck.
I never use collets for drills. Should they spin, they can scar up the collet, and destroy their accuracy. Drill shanks are not very precise anyway, and a good chuck will hold them just fine, and bite into them, since they are soft.
So, back to your question. Get a full set of collets, and a few larger end mill holders. Get a boring head. Get a face mill. Get/make a flycutter. Get a good drill chuck.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,172
Id grab a few endmill holders for the standard sizes likke 3/8 1/2 5/8
and some of the larger sizes if needed. The collet set for R-8 are reasonably
priced, and quick and easy. I use them to hold end mills when cutting aluminum.
The collet chucks on a mill, hmmm. Ive had one for yrs, and have allways veiwed it as a pain in the ass. Its a two handed operation to tighten, and loosin the collet chuck. In my opinion, those collet chucks need to be reefed up pretty tight to hold on well. The spindle brake on my mill wont hold well enough to get the collet chucks nut loosined, or tightened . The thing I really hate, is you have both hands full tryin to loosen the big nut, and on larger endmills, they weigh enough to just drop right out, and hit the work piece, or worse,,the vise.
For drilling, I just use a drill chuck, fast, and easy, with about as much percision Id expect out of a drill bit. I dont think Ive had my collet chuck in the spindle for a few yrs now. I have a power draw bar, and can change tooling pretty quick.
The other items Tony has mentioned are good advice.
Paul
and some of the larger sizes if needed. The collet set for R-8 are reasonably
priced, and quick and easy. I use them to hold end mills when cutting aluminum.
The collet chucks on a mill, hmmm. Ive had one for yrs, and have allways veiwed it as a pain in the ass. Its a two handed operation to tighten, and loosin the collet chuck. In my opinion, those collet chucks need to be reefed up pretty tight to hold on well. The spindle brake on my mill wont hold well enough to get the collet chucks nut loosined, or tightened . The thing I really hate, is you have both hands full tryin to loosen the big nut, and on larger endmills, they weigh enough to just drop right out, and hit the work piece, or worse,,the vise.
For drilling, I just use a drill chuck, fast, and easy, with about as much percision Id expect out of a drill bit. I dont think Ive had my collet chuck in the spindle for a few yrs now. I have a power draw bar, and can change tooling pretty quick.
The other items Tony has mentioned are good advice.
Paul
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
- Messages
- 430
As can be imagined, the choice of tooling will come down to mostly personal choice. The 3 popular collets that a home shop guy will be using, R-8. 5C, and the ER's all have good points, and some not so good. When I was starting out I got a set of Chinese R-8s with a couple end mill holders in R-8. I used these for some time, getting familiar with my mill/lathe --- and reading/absorbing info/comments on 5C and ER. I now have all 3 types and have definitely decided that my ER-40 collet set is my choice for use on the mill, but an occasional R-8 use will come up and its good to have them. The 5C are used on the lathe and a tool grinder. The couple times I had a collet slip in the ER chuck, turns out was my fault because I didnt really snug the nut up.
Hands down the most needed accessory for a mill is the VISE, the best your wallet can stand! Aside from collets, a hold down clamp set is a must, a boring head (a 2" will do most of you needs), 2 or 3 fly cutters, a drill chuck - maybe a couple more that I'm missing
Hands down the most needed accessory for a mill is the VISE, the best your wallet can stand! Aside from collets, a hold down clamp set is a must, a boring head (a 2" will do most of you needs), 2 or 3 fly cutters, a drill chuck - maybe a couple more that I'm missing
T
Tom Griffin
Forum Guest
Register Today
I don't care for end mill holders. They take too much room and it's not a big deal, but they do force the end mill slightly off center. The only time I've ever had an end mill slip in a collet was with an old Index mill. It had a wimpy draw bar that was hard to get tight.
1) A vise should be first on your list. I have a 5" Kurt Angle-Lock with a swivel base. They are very nice vises but quite expensive. I can't speak for the knock offs but you probably pretty much get what you pay for. Maybe a used one?
2) You'll need an assortment of parallels. The Chinese junk is fine for those since they take a beating anyway. I like the thin ones. They normally come in sets from 1/2" to 1 1/2" by 1/8" wide.
3) A good 1/2" Jacobs drill chuck with the appropriate taper for your mill.
4) An edge finder (Starrett)
5) A boring head
6) An angle plate
7) An assortment of hold down clamps, studs, hex nuts and tee nuts. Go crazy here, the stuff is cheap and you never know what you'll need.
8) A small sine bar is nice. I have a 2.5" one that is small enough to fit under the work in the vise. Of course that means you'll need a set of gauge blocks to set it (shop grade).
9) Adjustable parallels are handy for set-up and measurement on the mill.
10) Rotary table
11) Dividing head
12) A collet block is very handy if you have a set of 5C collets. I don't think I'd go out and buy a set of collets though just for the block.
13) Of course you'll need end mills. Buy the best you can afford and steer clear of the Chinese junk. They are cheap, but the geometry is poor and they don't last near as long as name brand American, European and Japanese cutters. The type you choose depends entirely on what you intend to use them on.
14) A good dial test indicator is a must. I like Inerapid, but Mitutoyo, Tesa and SPI are also good. Stick with Swiss or Japanese indicators and you won't be dissappointed.
That should be enough to get you started and definitely put a nice big dent in your bank account.
Tom
1) A vise should be first on your list. I have a 5" Kurt Angle-Lock with a swivel base. They are very nice vises but quite expensive. I can't speak for the knock offs but you probably pretty much get what you pay for. Maybe a used one?
2) You'll need an assortment of parallels. The Chinese junk is fine for those since they take a beating anyway. I like the thin ones. They normally come in sets from 1/2" to 1 1/2" by 1/8" wide.
3) A good 1/2" Jacobs drill chuck with the appropriate taper for your mill.
4) An edge finder (Starrett)
5) A boring head
6) An angle plate
7) An assortment of hold down clamps, studs, hex nuts and tee nuts. Go crazy here, the stuff is cheap and you never know what you'll need.
8) A small sine bar is nice. I have a 2.5" one that is small enough to fit under the work in the vise. Of course that means you'll need a set of gauge blocks to set it (shop grade).
9) Adjustable parallels are handy for set-up and measurement on the mill.
10) Rotary table
11) Dividing head
12) A collet block is very handy if you have a set of 5C collets. I don't think I'd go out and buy a set of collets though just for the block.
13) Of course you'll need end mills. Buy the best you can afford and steer clear of the Chinese junk. They are cheap, but the geometry is poor and they don't last near as long as name brand American, European and Japanese cutters. The type you choose depends entirely on what you intend to use them on.
14) A good dial test indicator is a must. I like Inerapid, but Mitutoyo, Tesa and SPI are also good. Stick with Swiss or Japanese indicators and you won't be dissappointed.
That should be enough to get you started and definitely put a nice big dent in your bank account.
Tom
T
Tom Griffin
Forum Guest
Register Today
I've never seen a Vertex vise, but it pretty much looks like an exact copy of the Kurt. I have a problem with the Asian dudes copying our stuff and underselling us but I guess that's the way the world works. The Taiwanese copy would probably be better quality than a Chinese copy.
Your concept of milling a slot is correct. Use a smaller end mill to rough it out and then generate the proper width by offsetting the cutter. I've been thinking about doing another video on just that sort of thing.
You can use whatever size end mill you like to face a part. Smaller ones will take longer than a larger end mill or a face mill, but they will produce a flatter surface. The perpendicularity of the spindle to the table is less critical with a smaller end mill because any tip is averaged out from pass to pass. I do a lot of work in aluminum and a 1/2" two flute double-end end mill is what I use most. They will work on steel as well but a four flute version will last longer.
Tom
Your concept of milling a slot is correct. Use a smaller end mill to rough it out and then generate the proper width by offsetting the cutter. I've been thinking about doing another video on just that sort of thing.
You can use whatever size end mill you like to face a part. Smaller ones will take longer than a larger end mill or a face mill, but they will produce a flatter surface. The perpendicularity of the spindle to the table is less critical with a smaller end mill because any tip is averaged out from pass to pass. I do a lot of work in aluminum and a 1/2" two flute double-end end mill is what I use most. They will work on steel as well but a four flute version will last longer.
Tom
T
Tom Griffin
Forum Guest
Register Today
You can move the jaws outboard to grip larger pieces of plate and by turning them upside down, more of the jaw sticks above the vise. I don't use them in the outboard position often, but it sometimes saves having to remove the vise and set up the part on the table.
Tom
Tom
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2011
- Messages
- 8,031
If you do use your vise jaws outboard, remember they are not in compression any more, and the socket cap screws are taking all of the stress of clamping.
T
Tom Griffin
Forum Guest
Register Today
Why the heck are shipping costs so high to and from Australia? I've passed on many items on eBay because of the astronomical shipping costs. Seems like once something is on a boat or airplane it's just a matter of pointing it in the right direction. Are you guys that far off the beaten path?
I use my swivel quite a bit and I think I would miss it if it were gone. Sure you could work around it but loosening a couple bolts and dialing in the angle is just so convenient. It also adds clearance between the Y axis hand wheel and the vise handle. Without the swivel base you would need to remove the handle before moving the X axis or risk a collision.
Tom
I use my swivel quite a bit and I think I would miss it if it were gone. Sure you could work around it but loosening a couple bolts and dialing in the angle is just so convenient. It also adds clearance between the Y axis hand wheel and the vise handle. Without the swivel base you would need to remove the handle before moving the X axis or risk a collision.
Tom