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Tool Cutter Grinder

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#1
In the summer I began doing some work on designing a T&C. I bought some plans online and started detailing project layouts. Nevertheless, I came across a project from a local machinst who has build a beautiful T&C. He is asking $900.00 is this too much. The design replicates a Quorn and a Brooks-Stent grinder. He has added ball bearings and digital readouts. Any thoughts?
 

4ssss

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#2
Sounds like a good deal when you take into account a Cuttermaster goes for 4 grand.
 

ch2co

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#3
I would definitely want to take a look at it before shelling out the cash, but yeah, it does sound like a good deal.
 
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#4
I'm still working on a prototype of a T&C. I find there isn't a proper T&C since the days of the Quorn and Brooks-Stent. So, when I found this find I was interested. But I want to investigate it further before anything.
 

mark_f

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#5
In the summer I began doing some work on designing a T&C. I bought some plans online and started detailing project layouts. Nevertheless, I came across a project from a local machinst who has build a beautiful T&C. He is asking $900.00 is this too much. The design replicates a Quorn and a Brooks-Stent grinder. He has added ball bearings and digital readouts. Any thoughts?
Knowing what I know now, I would never build a quorn or Bonnelle grinder. I built a Bonnelle and it sits under one of the benches gathering dust. I found it way over engineered and time consuming and many times difficult to make it do what I needed. I built a T&C designed similar to a Cuttermaster It is much easier to use and does what I need. But that is MY opinion.
 
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#6
Thanks Mark!
I too agree that the Bonnelle is over engineered and time consuming. The cuttermaster is a good product but I find it over-priced. I know I can build and design a more simpler, product and more fairly priced.
 

mark_f

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#7
Thanks Mark!
I too agree that the Bonnelle is over engineered and time consuming. The cuttermaster is a good product but I find it over-priced. I know I can build and design a more simpler, product and more fairly priced.
Yes and the quorn is too small. Take a look at the T&C I built for some ideas. It is in members projects. I have to take mine apart and make a small change but it is nothing major. You can build one as good as the Cuttermaster a whole lot cheaper. I think if I bought everything for mine it woul cost about $500.
One thing to remember ( I learned this the hard way) . You build a beautiful grinder and suddenly realize you can't use it because you have to make all the fixtures to use it. ( They are too expensive to buy). I have been making them as I need them.
 

chips&more

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#8
Yes, a Cuttermaster can be in the thousands, but that’s new or goofy priced used. I see then in my neck of the woods for under $1k all the time in good used condition. Before I would buy somebody’s homemade project, especially for that kind of money. I would very carefully go over it!!! I’m stepping on toes, sorry. But, not everyone can make a T&C grinder and make it work. I would be much happier buying a factory made something (and I’m not thinking overseas when I say that, sorry again). I think a floor mount universal grinder would be MUCH more adaptable in a home shop. With it you can grind sooooo many capabilities. And it’s around $1K in good used condition…Dave
 

benmychree

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#9
Yes, a Cuttermaster can be in the thousands, but that’s new or goofy priced used. I see then in my neck of the woods for under $1k all the time in good used condition. Before I would buy somebody’s homemade project, especially for that kind of money. I would very carefully go over it!!! I’m stepping on toes, sorry. But, not everyone can make a T&C grinder and make it work. I would be much happier buying a factory made something (and I’m not thinking overseas when I say that, sorry again). I think a floor mount universal grinder would be MUCH more adaptable in a home shop. With it you can grind sooooo many capabilities. And it’s around $1K in good used condition…Dave
I quite agree with you about floor mounted older industrial cutter grinders; I have a #1 Norton T&C grinder with most all the accessories, and find it quite useful for nearly any sharpening project; it came out of government storage, and was in excellent condition except for the typical government repaint that peels off; I sanded it all down and did a proper job of it. One time, I was given a small KO Lee cutter grinder with all the accessories and found it to by a real pain in the (posterior) to use; when I sold my business, I had an appraiser come in to evaluate all the machinery; he was a professional machinery salesman and quite knowlegeable; I was telling him what excellent condition it was in and all that came with it; after I stopped talking , he asked me "what do you really think of it"; I replied, Ray, it's a piece of ****! By this I meant it was haed to set up to be able to reach what you were working on and extremely limited in it's working envelope.
 
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#10
Thanks guys. I understand the irony in building and especially buying a T&C. But for me it's a bucket list thing. When I do build it I will make all sorts of jigs and fixtures. But I assume I'll make jigs and fixtures optimizing the ones that most commonly used, and then making/designing ones as I see fit
 

EmilioG

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#11
When you consider that a Deckel costs around $10k, $900 doesn't seem like a lot, but at any price, if it's not
accurate, even $100 is too much. The prototype company that I worked for, had a Deckel. Made in Germany.
Most of the collets were missing., but I remember how well it was made. I have no idea how one would check
a T&C grinder other than to try grinding a few tools.
I've seen Imports that don't seem bad. Check out Stefans YouTube video. I think he modified a Chinese Deckel copy.
 

Dan_S

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#12
Some times I think it might be cheaper/easier to just buy a surface grinder, and make fixtures as needed.
 

samthedog

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#13
I have had many conversations with an English friend of mine about the somewhat utilitarian aspects of the Clarkson Mk II tool and cutter grinder. On one hand they are very basic and somewhat rough, but on the other hand they just get the job done. I have seen and owned fancier tool and cutter grinders but none came to the ease of use of the Clarkson. There's no point owning a machine if it's too hard or time consuming to set up and use.

Paul.
 

woodchucker

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#14
Yes and the quorn is too small. Take a look at the T&C I built for some ideas. It is in members projects. I have to take mine apart and make a small change but it is nothing major. You can build one as good as the Cuttermaster a whole lot cheaper. I think if I bought everything for mine it woul cost about $500.
One thing to remember ( I learned this the hard way) . You build a beautiful grinder and suddenly realize you can't use it because you have to make all the fixtures to use it. ( They are too expensive to buy). I have been making them as I need them.
I went to member projects, and I don't see your projects.
 

Bob Korves

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#16
The nice thing about T&C grinders is their versatility. You can get them to grind just about anything that you can fit into their envelope. Of course, you will probably have to find or build a fixture to make it work, but the biggest limitation is the imagination of the user. Make sure to get one with an envelope large enough to fit the kind of work you plan on doing, plus some extra if possible and if you can find the space for it.
 

Chipper5783

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#17
I picked up a Cincinnati No2 T&C. I thought it was huge (the basic machine is probably 2000#). Now that I have used it a bit - I've found that it is adequate for general purpose grinding. One still has to be thoughtful of the set ups, as it is easy to run out of room. The attachments are critical - without the attachments the basic machine, though an impressive piece of kit - goes for scrap price.
 

Cactus Farmer

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#18
I have a Rockwell delta ) T&C grinder which came with a few accessories and over the years have made many more fixtures, It came with just one hub, but me being the whizzbang guy I am, figured out how to build several more. Yes they are a PITA to make but now I know how it's done. This is all a learning exercise anyway. This is a T&C/surface grinder and has done all that I have ever ask of it and some more. I look for additional pieces and stones while checking out auctions and such. Setting by my 11X30 Rockwell lathe is about 2feet of 12L14 that will be made into more hubs. Yes, they are tough to do but I am very happy with the results from the first batch.
 

jamby

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#19
Back in the stone age, when I was a apprentice I spent 2/300 hrs in the tool and cutter grind area. Most of the work was done on Cincinnati t&c machines but several were set up for just special jobs. Like corner radii on end mills. But all of the operators could have done most of the work by hand. That is how they split to center the drills and gummed out the end mills if they got back a broken one.
The leadman checked all out going cutters before they were coated with plastic move into the tool room. There was a shadowgraph to check all angles on.
But most of the drills were handled in another shop where a group of people sat at bench grinders all day hand grinding drills from the smallest to about 1/2 dia.
They never paid me enough for that job.

Off topic but it always killed me that when they repainted that area all the old benches around the walls were pulled back so the contractors could get in there. Bunch of art work (graphitti) was found showing Hitler, Tojo and other WWII topics. They should have at least photographed it all, but no......

One guy called those days BC ... before calculators... (1968)

I can't even imagine a nc t&c
 
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