To Harden Or Not To Harden...

MarshallC

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So I have ground a few of my own tools for my lathe from some HSS blanks. I got about 4 hours in to the work I made them for and they have lost their edge. The plan was to harden the cutting edge while I was grinding them but after talking with a few coworkers I decided not to. The idea being that if I ever need to resharpen them and they were hardened it would make it difficult. Well if I have to resharpen them every few hours of use then that really sucks. So, the question is, do you harden your custom HSS cutters after grinding or no?

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So I have ground a few of my own tools for my lathe from some HSS blanks. I got about 4 hours in to the work I made them for and they have lost their edge. The plan was to harden the cutting edge while I was grinding them but after talking with a few coworkers I decided not to. The idea being that if I ever need to resharpen them and they were hardened it would make it difficult. Well if I have to resharpen them every few hours of use then that really sucks. So, the question is, do you harden your custom HSS cutters after grinding or no?

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HSS stays hard even when it gets dull red hot. You will never get them that hot grinding tool bits. They will dull with use but can be freshened up on the grinder with no worries about them losing their hardness. Tom of Tom's Techniques just made a video about this very subject:
Edit: Tom had been away for awhile so you can skip the first 2:40 of the video if you want to get right to the subject matter.
 
The quality of the HSS blanks you are using makes all the difference. There is a series of Youtube videos with each taking a different tool bit to destruction done by "wecrashit" Easy to see which blanks work best when compared in similar tests.

 
Pictures of your tools, knowing what your cutting, how much your taking off, & how fast your turning would all help in knowing what is going on.

I stone a tool after grinding then use it a long time unless I do something stupid.
 
I've never heard of hardening a HSS tool. I would question any one who claimed to have done it unless they have a pretty fancy oven and the knowledge to go with it. As far as I know, all high speed steels maintain their hardness right up to turning cherry red, you can't hurt the steel grinding with out damaging the wheel.
Plain Tx HSS is really hard to begin with, I use it for bits that get reground a lot because it grinds fast.
Mx has a hardness greater than Rockwell 60, and Cobalt is even harder. Cobalt tools are so hard they will actually chip when cutting hardened steels if you are not careful.
I use 1/2" to 3/4" cobalt tools for basic turning and facing because it wears for ever, but it takes a really long time to grind the cutter into shape. I like 1/4" or 5/16" M2 for threading because is grinds easier than cobalt but holds a better edge than T1. I also use M2 in flycutters because it handles interrupted cuts better than Cobalt.

It is hard to say if 4 hours is good or not with out knowing what type of HSS you are using, and what you are cutting. Tools get dull, this is just a fact of life. With HSS you just touch up the edge and carry on, I don't even remove the tool from the holder usually. I just take the entire tool + holder to the grinder and put a fresh edge on it. I also don't bother to touch the edge up with a stone 90% of the time.
If dressing the tool bothers you, then you will have accept the cost of replacing inserts, or try to find some Tantung bits. Tantung and similar steels are a major pain to grind because they rival carbide for hardness and can't be quenched.
 
4 hours sounds pretty good to me. Even all the fancy shmancy tooling when working production rarely lasted that long, unless it was on mild aluminum.

Resharpen HSS or purchase $80 throw-away index inserts? I'll take resharpening.
 
I like to use a simple knife edge grind for most of my roughing then finish with other tools (maybe more radius on the tip) that helps a lot as the roughing tool can get chiped or slightly dull so when you sawap to a finishing tool it's nice and fresh.

Stuart
 
It seems short to me that you guys only get about 4 hours of cutting on a tool. Maybe I'm going to easy on my tools.
 
That guy in the video above is going to ruin the collet and hurt his spindle bearings! There is no reason AT ALL to allow a tool to fail and keep it running until the whole thing gets white hot! That guy will soon be looking for another lathe. And,I pity the guy who buys his old one!!!

About your HSS tools: They will require resharpening and you might be running your lathe too fast. I have HSS tools that last a lot longer. But,you have to know what speeds to use and how much to expect to remove at a pass.

I have no idea what you are talking about "Hardening" your HSS tools. They come pre hardened,and you can do nothing to change that. You can heat them till they melt,and the melted puddle will still be hard as blazes.
 
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