Thoughts on giong the Collet route...

dfwcnc

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I was curious as I am running a 3 or 4 jaw chuck, what the advantage would be of running a collet system instead? I plan on turning primarily 1/2 or 3/4 inch material anyway, and if I need to, I can always put the chuck on. Just curious...

Thanks~
 
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I was curious as I am running a 3 or 4 jaw chuck, what the advantage would be of running a collete system instead? I plan on turning primarily 1/2 or 3/4 inch material anyway, and if I need to, I can always put the chuck on. Just curious...

Thanks~

It's faster, a lot more repeatable than a chuck, less spinning mass, and for common sizes of material collect are off the shelf.
For custom sizes you can get an emergency collet and bore it to whatever size you wanted to.

There are a lot other types of collets available also.

These are some of the things that are good about a collet system.


You can also make your own. I describe mine HERE.

Gary
 
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Yeah, that sounds attractive. Every time I take a piece of work out of the chuck, it never goes back in the same way leaving me warbly. Where can I get a set or kit, do you know?
 
I tend to like collets and think they're very useful for shafts which you cannot drill a center hole (to spin between centers) or are already have a nice finish but need a little modification. All my 4J chucks have hardened jaws that leave bite marks. There are ways around that but just went a different route with the collet chuck. Like any any other, collet chucks need to be properly fitted or you could always make or buy a 5C spindle adapter and collet closer and skip the chuck.

Even good collets have a little run-out but marking the piece with a landmark increases your odds of re-chucking it within a half thou -or even better. It really depends on the quality of the collets and if you've actually removed the collet from it's fixture.

Couple thoughts... If you go that route, completely avoid using a collet too small for the shaft and attempting to clamp it tight. The collet could get stuck and it could deform the very outer lip of the inner hole. A full set in 1/64 steps is ideal. Also, the bore will get scored-up if you work on scaly metal so, I only put clean stock in them.

BTW: I got mine from shars. After proper mounting the needle on the TDI doesn't move. Not bad for something like 125 bucks -as I recall.

Ray
 
Independent jaw chucks are notoriously unrepeatable. If you remove the work, don't plan on getting it back in the same way again. You can get things dialed in dead on with an independent jaw chuck (at the expense of time). Collets are another option. Usually more expensive, they are nice because they have good concentricity, and they grip over a large area, which is nice for thin or fragile items (they mar less than a chuck).

There are a TON of different types of chucks out there. Probably the most popular for workholding in a lathe is the 5c collet. This is what you seen on Hardinge lathes (they invented them, or purchased the company that did, can't remember), and the spindle of those machines is a match. You can also get lots of accessories that use them on the mill (spin indexers, collet blocks, etc). They are also common, so you can probably pick them up used on E-bay if you are patient. The downside of them is that they have a very small clamping range, so you need a lot of them to cover the full range.

It somewhat comes down to what type of lathe you have. In any case, you will need a collet chuck, which you can make or buy.
 
I've never been a big fan of collet work, but the real advantage is in doing work that starts as a standard size round (or hex, or square, depending on the collet), is relatively short, and perhaps needs to be held on a finished surface for a secondary operation. Of course, collets have a limit on the size stock you can work with, so they really shine only on a limited range, smaller than many parts some of use need to make. I guess that's one of the reasons I don't have a serious need for them. And I am not one for swapping chucks around on machines on a whim. I have a good quality 3 jaw on by newer lathe, and a so-so 3 jaw on the older Monarch. For the same basic reasons people use collets, I prefer to use soft jaws that replace the bolt-on top jaws on the 3 jaw chucks. When properly prepared, their runout is practically nonexistant. It has the advantage over collets in that the size is not limited to something on the order of >1.00". More like the capacity of the chuck in normal use. Plus the same methodology can be used for ID chucking.

In general though, proper planning of the job can eliminate most instances of the need for accurate chucking to the point of needing a collet. If working to a drawing, the sequence can generally be set up to turn all the features that must run true together at the same chucking. Granted, the part generally will need machining on both ends, but in my experience, there is ample concentricity tolerance for a typical chuck to be used without undue worry. But if the requirements are stiff, soft jaws to the rescue again. Near zero runout is not difficult to achieve. Soft jaws can be shop made, or purchased commercially made for just about any chuck with 2 piece jaws.

I'm not trying to talk anyone out of using collets. I believe they have a place in many shops. But they are rarely a necessity, at least in my experience. They can make some jobs simpler, and faster, but this is supposed to be a hobby for most of the guys here, and collets provide the greatest benefits in a production shop. I worked a turret lathe with collets at McEvoy here back in the 70's. I ran hundreds, if not thousands of valve stems with the collet machine, and there would be no comparison with any other means of workholding. But in my shop, since I do exclusively R&D and prototype work, usually of odd sized parts a little larger than collet systems support, I haven't any use for them at present. I do have a set (most of one, anyway) of 5C collets for a future project - a tool grinder. I suppose that if I had a need, I would build a chuck that uses them, but I really hate disturbing a well running 3 jaw.
 
Sorry about the temporary hijack here...

Tony, Would you mind mentioning what brand/model of 3J you have that's running good & true? Mine is OK, between 2 and 3 thou but closer would be better. Have thought about tweaking it but I haven't had much luck doing that with others in the past.

Thanks

Ray
 
dfwcnc,

It might be well, since no one else has mentioned this, to back up and say that what kind of collets are practical for use depends upon what size of machine you have or expect to have. Second, a collet chuck is a relatively complicated widget that attaches to the spindle in the same manner as any other chuck and generally is tightened with a T-handle wrench. Everything else is more commonly called a collet closer (except with MT collets which fit the native spindle taper and only require a drawbar) and are either lever and drawtube or handwheel and drawtube actuated. So what machine are we talking about? Several threads ago, you mentioned having an Atlas 618 but asked about a Myford.

Robert D.
 
5C collets aren't limited by when can fit through the collet. You can get clutch collets up to 6" in diameter for large shallow items.

0974320-11.jpg

You can also take these and machine square or offset parts in the mill to hold them in the lathe.
They also make collets for holding on to the ID of parts.

You can also use them on the tool post of your lathe to hold endmills Like I did here:

IMG_1539 (Large).JPG

5C collets are very versatile. These are just some of the things you can do with them.

Gary

0974320-11.jpg IMG_1539 (Large).JPG
 
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Gary, if I'm not mistaken, the make is "Strong". It's not a big name, I suppose, but it's a 10" that came with the lathe when I bought it new. It's never been off, and never wrecked. I'm beginning to see a little "spring" if I don't use the entire length of jaw, but I can just toss a piece of round stock in and I'm surprised if it's more than 0.0015 or so. I do use almost exclusively the marked primary pinion for tightening, and have pulled the jaws and solvent washed the scroll regularly, and kept it lubed. If I ever replace it, it will probably be a Buck 6 jaw Set-Tru, but I don't envision that any time soon. That chuck is about 15 years old now, I believe. I could probably touch it up with a TPG, but it is still plenty accurate for my work.


I am in no way putting down collets, and as I said, not trying to talk anyone out of going that route, but just pointing out some alternatives, and some of what I consider weak points that can easily be accommodated with soft jaws. Both have their places, and it comes down to what kind of work you want to do. Kind of in the same vein as the thread on what doesn't make you a machinist. Collets are not a cure-all or panacea for lathe workholding. And there are many things that you cannot do with them that you can easily do with a self centering chuck.
 
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