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This Followed Me Home

ThunderDog

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#1
I picked up this little benchtop horizontal mill. Problem is I'm not finding any documentation. It has a Delta tag, but I found nothing that looks the same. I've searched Vintage Machinery but no success. Any help would be appreciated.
IMG_20160703_182510.jpg


Posted the videos here to keep the thread tidy:

Part 2

Part 3
 
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Martin W

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#2
Nice find:) Looks pretty stout. I have never seen anything like this one before. The nice part it doesn't take up a whole bunch of space.
Cheers
Martin
 

brino

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#4
Interesting......can we get pictures from a couple different angles?
Thanks,
-brino
 

ThunderDog

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#6
On further inspection it does not look like a Burke. The shape of the column is thinner near the back bearing and there is a protrusion in the casting for the lower pulley to socket into. I think I'm going to swap in a treadmill motor for some variable speed control. The treadmill is rated as 2.5hp "treadmill duty"(whatever that means). I'll be conservative and assume that equals a 1/3 hp motor, which is what this machine came with.

Wawoodman, I agree that the red paint needs to go. It looks to be originally green, but I am a fan of gray.

Brino, here are some more pics.
Milling20Machine201_zps252dc878.jpg

Milling20Machine203_zpsd9521051.jpg

Milling20Machine204_zpsc00cc91c.jpg

7d646e21-08d9-4a6a-9dd8-459af8189d70_zpsukddmzjt.jpg
 

Superburban

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#7
Is the table powered?

Keep in mind, the speed difference between a treadmill motor, and that 1/3 HP motor.
 

ARKnack

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#8
Krucker@friendlycity.net

Send a few pictures to Keith Rucker about this. He may be willing to forward it to a person he knows that is a Delta fanatic. Keith has been working on restoring a Delta grinder for the guy on his YouTube channel. Also Keith is one of the persons the started Vintage Machinery web site. Originally the OWWM site.
 

FOMOGO

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#10
The red does make her a bit the tart, but you know, I think I kind a like it. :alien::bonesrock::):cat::boxed in::cower::grin:. Definitely need to stay out of the smiley farm after the second Manhattan. Here's mud in your eye, Mike
 

dlane

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#11
I like it,
Red is good to , especially when it's running ,"caution " just don't paint it the safety yelgrn
 
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ThunderDog

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#12
Well, let me start by saying the following. Covering up minor imperfections is one thing, covering up major flaws is extremely dishonest. So, now let's take a look at what I'm talking about. As I began a complete strip down of this mill I started noticing little things. The first was the use of small metal pieces shoved underneath the set screws because the set screws were too short. No problem, I stopped at the home center and picked up the proper sizes. Then I discovered what looked like a perfect indentation on one of the sides of the column. I scratched at it with a small pick to remove the red paint and discovered they used putty to fill the hole. I didn't think too much of it as this probably was their way of making it look "pretty". But once I began using the aircraft stripper that is when the real terror set in. A huge hole in the casting right beside the way. Filled completely with JB Weld. I poked it with a small pick and it proceeded to crumble with that distinct JB Weld smell. Needless to say I had some very descriptive words sounding off in my garage. I believe this hole has been there for a long time because there is original green paint on the hole.(see pics) My question for the experienced, should I have the hole filled? If so, how? I would be concerned with twist due to heat.

On a positive note, I found one other clue that may help me identify this mill. The rear bearing is a Timken and the date is stamped 1985. Of course, with all of the shady cover-ups I can't completely trust that is the original bearing.

Pics for your enjoyment and my pain.
IMG_20160711_005328_zpsykavvqgn.jpg

Quick, find the 3 holes that have been filled.
IMG_20160711_004902_zps5i5te2rf.jpg

Front view
IMG_20160711_004709_zps6pkkyrhc.jpg

Front view hole
IMG_20160711_004653_zpstpyli5uc.jpg

Back view hole (Just think, that was completely filled with JB Weld)
IMG_20160711_004810_zpsjkgohyo4.jpg

IMG_20160711_004835_zpsvjbyxukt.jpg
 

Joe in Oz

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#14
Small plugs - usually made from bronze or brass - were common under set screws. The idea is that they don't rotate when the set screw gets tightened and there for don't (or lessen) the marking of whatever they hold tight. Clean them, dab some grease or antiseize on and put them back with the shorter set screws.
Filling no longer required holes (threaded or not) with filler/putty/epoxy is normal restoration or even maintenance technique. What else would you do? Put in a metal plug then cover it with primer and paint? I don't see the point. Leaving them open makes them swarf catchers.
Lastly, were the hole next to the casting appears to be a deliberate rectangular opening or a casting 'fault'. Your options are very limited to shutting that. I would not even consider brazing or welding it in the position that it's in. You would almost certainly distort the knee way. My solution would be to srew on a solid cover plate behind it to regain whatever rigidity might be lost by the casting hole (since you can get at the back, fix the plate with blind threaded holes to leave no new holes in the front. Fill whatever annoys you in the fault with JB weld or better from the front.
You own it, it is a very nice mill, you are the envy of hundreds if not thousands of people for finding it - and the warranty has run out (if you find the manufacturer) :)
Make it straight and accurate and then make it pretty.
If you are using a DC motor which may be shorter than the motor fitted on that unfortunate looking 'extension foot', you may be able to arrange it with pulleys both ends and put half of it in the base of the body and have the other end out for the 'direct drive'/high speed pulley - which doesn't look original to me and may well be redundant with the DC motor anyway.
Red isn't a bad colour as such for machines. Why this looks 'amateurish' is that EVERTHING was painted red. If the handwheels and handle had their rims polished, ist would look VERY different. If you paint it grey, see if you can introduce a secondary colour for say handwheels, inside the T-slots, bearing housings - that sort of thing, red, silver, black even... and polish some highlights (maybe even get them nickel plated to prevent rust).
What makes machines REALLY good looking is to cover all flat surfaces in putty and sand them REALLY flat and smooth. Think Deckel, Monarch et al. Have a look how they are finished. You should see undistorted reflections on the surfaces.
It will look brilliant!
The other thing I would do is make a hinged (at the top) cover for the reduction 'gear' belts box. Make it look 'factory option'. You may need to file or fill the opening's top edge a bit, maybe give it a very slight epoxy out-turned flange that looks like 'cast'. That way the cover will sit on something flat. Dopping a tool in there while it's running will not be pretty.

What a bloody great find! Congratulations! I know I'd LOVE it.....
Looking forward to following your resto thread.
Cheers,
Joe
 
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Bill Gruby

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#15
Yes, as stated, 1985 is the Timken Bearing number.

"Bill"
 

ThunderDog

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#16
Joe in Oz, at first it seemed like you were bashing but you actually talked some sense into me. Seriously, thanks for the input. After sleeping on my "discoveries" I think I will take your idea of a support plate in the back. Like you say the unused holes could be filled, but I may leave them open for the EXTREMELY unlikely event that I find what went to them. That's why I like this forum so much, so people can talk sense into others.

I'll post up some more progress in the next day or two.
 

4gsr

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#17
That big opening I'm sure was intentional in the beginning. I don't believe that was a casting defect. I will say some of the surfaces there are vary rough for a casting.
 

tomh

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#18
Hi
After enlarging the photo of the hole, it is clear that it was cast into it for some reason. What reason I don't know, but as a small child my dad had a small foundry and I would watch and help (OK, I would hinder the pattern makers as they rammed their patterns). I am not sure but I believe that it possibly had something to do with the way the pattern halves went together. I see no reason to be alarmed and no reason why it would affect the function of the mill. If it was mine I would restore it and use it as is.:encourage:

Tomh
 

brino

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#21
Your hammering in high speed sounds like a jack hammer! ;)
Nice time lapse of the paint stripper.....you can see it crackle/buckle.

I have to agree that that void at the bottom of the knee ways was put there for a reason, I just cannot figure out what that reason was!
Did you do anything with/about it?

Were those all the original lead-screws and nuts that you put back in?

Nice video, thanks for sharing it!

-brino
 

4gsr

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#22
Thunderdog,

Can you take a very close up picture of the Delta name plate and post.

Ken
 

ThunderDog

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#23
brino, I decided to leave the void alone. Didn't even cover it with a plate in the back. If by lead screws you mean the acme threaded screws, yes they are original. The set screws were replaced with new and longer (appropriately sized) set screws. I know it was previously mentioned that some machines had small pieces of brass inside the set screws, but I find this annoying and similar to a problem of Myford/Drummond spindle bearings. The Myford/Drummond lathe uses brass inserts under two set screws on the spindle bearings. They are a a pain to deal with because they tend not to relieve themselves/loosen if the set screws are loosened for adjustment. Therefore if they don't release the only way to adjust them is with a disassembly. Don't ask how I know this. :)

Here is the pic.
Mill20Tag_zps0atcmfrz.jpg


One other thing that I would like to add for those who might be researching what this machine really may be. The cover plate(the black disc) on the front of the spindle is definitely not original. It is a piece of aluminum. Hence the reason for painting it black.
 
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4gsr

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#24
Thunderdog, Thanks for posting the picture. That helps a bunch! At least, it narrows it down to the company original name and it's location. Doesn't appear it is connected with the well known Delta Machinery Co. as most of us know for woodworking machinery. We'll keep looking. Thanks. Ken

BTW- Looking at the old Sheldon Vernon No. 0 horizontal mill, there are similarities on the front portion of the mill. But it has a variable speed pulley system instead of step pulleys as your mill has. Just an observation. May not be any connection there. You never know.
 

ARKnack

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#26
One of the thing you might try to clean up that tag is lacquer thinner. Test it in a small area first. That is what I used to remove the paint on a Sprunger bandsaw. Worked great with no damage to it.
 

benmychree

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#27
That nameplate is obviously a dealer's plate that is it was put on by the dealer that originally sold the machine, nothing to do with the manufacturer; these used to be very common, not so much any more.
Very rough castings suggest to me a likely World War Two vintage when production was of greater importance than nicety.
 

benmychree

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#29
I finally watched your video; the fact that it has a tee slot in the front bearing cover tells me that it originally had a swiveling vertical attachment that would have fastened up to it.
 

JH-NWOH

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#30
Really good video. Looks like you are going to have a really nice mill when you are done. I also believe that the casting and some of the modifications were done to keep the machine working when that was more important than actually making a proper repair. Did you take any measurements before you started on the rebuild? Just courious as to how much play and wear you found.
Jim
 
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