Tell me what level to buy...

expressline99

Registered
Registered
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Messages
439
I am having a horrible time finding the "right" machine level to buy. I need a 6"...I think Bob you want me to get a .0005 per 10" or 12" I forget. But I don't want to spend $200 to $800 to level a couple of machines. (Prior to scraping) from what I am gathering on my reading .005 is way too sloppy to get a 43" long lathe bed level. Then the similar will need to be done to my mill. Some have said the Starrett 98's...others Starrett 199's. I would be absolutely fine with an import. But it seems you either get a 4" or an 8"..or bigger. What to do?

Paul
 
Paul, you will see opinions on this subject that range from being okay with a carpenter's level to guys who say that you should get a master precision level. All of us are faced with the exact question you're asking so I'll offer an opinion.

A lathe is leveled not just once or twice or three times. Over it's lifetime, a lathe will need to be re-leveled many times so I feel having a good level that will get you very close is a worthwhile investment. The level does not need to be super-expensive but it should be sensitive. By that, I mean it should read to 0.0002-0.0005" over a 10-12" span. The reason for this degree of sensitivity is that it saves you time. Once the lathe is level with one of these contraptions it usually only takes a slight tweak after doing a 2-collar test and you're done. Less sensitive levels will require more work to get you to that point.

A level of this type need not be expensive if an import is okay. You will find them in a 10-12" length for under $100.00 on ebay, like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-Precision...hash=item258b5edad4:m:m9eGS-so0O0PoDsPDcLo7Bg

Mine is a Kinex, an 11.5" long level sensitive to 0.02mm/M, or 0.0002"/10"; this is the same sensitivity as the one I linked to above but that one can be had for far less than mine cost.

You may stay with your 10" Logan but you may switch someday and the level will be there for you. I suggest a 10-12" long level so you can use it on any lathe you buy/have. Once you have one, learn to calibrate it and use it correctly.

Hope that helps.
 
For what little bit it is worth, I purchased a level similar to the one Mike has linked to in the eBay add. For the same reason Mike listed, I have several lathes, a mill and other machinery, so I figured a decent level would be of help. It seems to be doing the trick, how accurate it is I can not say, I have carpenter levels and a few decent lasers here, they seem to point to it being accurate. I have an 8" model, I got mine thru grizzly when they were running a sale several months back.

Hth
Rich
 
Accuracy is almost never important in a level. Resolution and repeatability are the only things we are normally looking for. For doing precision leveling for machine reconditioning and scraping, a resolution somewhere in the neighborhood of .0005" per 10-12" will be required. To set up an ordinary lathe for ordinary use, a high resolution level is not only not needed, it probably makes things more difficult, without noticeable gains.

Mine is like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SHARS-8-MASTER-PRECISION-LEVEL-FOR-MACHINIST-TOOL-NEW-0005-NEW/331612008154?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20150313114020&meid=c4ef1b2bb29b495684443faa9fbad4c6&pid=100338&rk=2&rkt=29&mehot=pp&sd=272270058779
and Shars (the real seller) has a very good price on it.

There are a few others a little cheaper:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=8"+MASTER+PRECISION+LEVEL&_sop=15
 
Last edited:
Grizzly has an 8" for about $82 and a 12" for about $112, I have them both, they are very nice I was also given a Starrett.
 
If you squint your eyes just a little, all the inexpensive Chinese import levels (and other tools) look like they came out of the same mold. I do not think that is necessarily true, but they are commonly built to the same designs and dimensions. Some sellers, like Grizzly, Shars, and others, promote their Chinese tools as superior, and charge more for them. Many of us seem to be brand conscious, and the manufacturers can increase their prices by having good brand name appeal. Whether their tools are actually made to a higher standard seems to be a mixed bag, from my experiences. I have bought very nice products from the lowest price sellers and very poor products from the "premium" importers. I have no real idea why this might be so, it is only my observations. My guess is that quality control and quality assurance are lacking across the board in an effort to keep prices down and profits up. So, for generic Chinese stuff, visually the same design as the competition, I simply buy the lowest cost ones I can find, including taxes, shipping, etc. Since I have changed to this method, my success to failure ratio with Chinese tooling seems to have stayed about the same. YMMV.
 
Last edited:
So on the calibration. I assume Tom Lipton's video's should apply to an import level as well. Using a "fence" of some sort on my surface plate to get a level into accuracy. Using canceling adjustments and so forth?

Paul
 
My only concern with shopping on price is that while all the tools may be made by the same manufacturer; in the process of QC, there may be some fallout of inferior product which may find its way to other vendors. I have found that Asian vendors will quote a spec associated with a product that has no bearing on the performance of the product they are selling. The runout on a collet may be specified by the manufacturer at .0002" and some will fall out at final inspection at .002". The vendor buying up the fallout will still list the runout at .0002" because that is what the manufacturer makes. I find it very doubtful that the vendor even has a clue as to how to measure runout, let alone the ability or inclination to measure it.
 
So on the calibration. I assume Tom Lipton's video's should apply to an import level as well. Using a "fence" of some sort on my surface plate to get a level into accuracy. Using canceling adjustments and so forth?

Paul
In theory, this will work.

Depending on how the level vial was made though, there may be an issue. In the past, level vial were made by slightly curving a glass tube. If the vial was canted slightly, it would affect the curvature in the vertical plane. If the level vial is made and installed correctly, only the sensitivity will be affected but it is conceivable that the bubble could be shifted slightly as well. Better levels have a cross level to insure that the main vial isn't canted. Modern hardware store variety vials have a barrel shaped bore so they read the same even if canted.

When rotating on a surface plate to find a line that is dead level the line perpendicular to that line is the worst case off level. Unless the surface plate was brought into a close-to-level condition first, there could be a calibration error. If using a smaller surface plate, the bottom side of the plate could be shimmed to make the top surface level. A three point suspension would be recommended to avoid any rocking of the plate. If using one of the larger plates on a stand, the stand should really be leveled anyway as there are additional benefits.
 
I agree with RJ, you should use a three point leveling table. Mine is just Melamine-coated plywood with three adjustable screws/legs. It allows for fairly quick and accurate calibration. You should use two fences to ensure your level is in the exact same place after you flip it. Be sure the fences are in place before you begin the leveling process so they are taken into account when you level the table. I use a bubble level in the center of the adjustable table to get it roughly level before calibrating.

I am attaching a file to guide you through this process. It isn't difficult to do but can take some time. The bubble can take up to a minute to settle so take your time when calibrating (and using it). Once the level is calibrated it will usually hold its calibration for some time and all you need to do is verify it.
 

Attachments

  • Engineers-Level-Calibration-Instructions.pdf
    38.8 KB · Views: 24
Back
Top