1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

    Dismiss Notice

Table Oilers for G&E 16" Shaper

Discussion in 'MACHINE RESTORATION & WAY SCRAPING' started by Reeltor, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    I have a G&E 16" "Industrial" Shaper that I need to get back into service. Someone cut the electricals from the motor to the shaper, but that will be a different can of worms.
    I just dipped out 5+ gallons of what looks like motor oil from the base of the shaper and plan on refilling with diesel fuel to clean out all the lines etc. To get to the point: On the rear section of the table there are 2-oilers, the one on the right has a hose coming out the top with a copper tube that has been crimped shut. Can anyone let me know how the lubrication for this part of the shaper is supposed to be run?
    You can see the access hole that is on the back side of the table support, it has a hose going into the main base of the shaper and is attached to the oil system. What is marked Left Oiler is directly above this area with the rubber hose w/crimped off copper end. At this point I would just want to get the shaper running. Paint etc. will be well down the road.

    Mike


    BOTH TABLE OILERS.jpg REAR TABLE ACCESS HOLE.jpg CENTER OILER.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  2. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Victoria, Texas
    City:
    Victoria
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

    If I had to guess, they crimp off the end of the tubing with a very small opening that would allow a small drip directed to the column way. Unfortunatly, this stuff gets damaged and removed over years of abuse and neglect and never gets fixed. Is there a oil pump some where on the machine that feeds this line as well as other lines on the shaper? How about some more pictures? Ken
     
    Reeltor likes this.
  3. Uglydog

    Uglydog United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    1,066
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Dayton
    State:
    Minnesota

    -Return to Top-

    Wondering if the GE lube diagram on the attached might help?

    Daryl
    MN
     

    Attached Files:

    royesses and Reeltor like this.
  4. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    Ken, let me know what additional photos would you like to see and I'll try to get them.
    Daryl, I've not see that manual before, thank you for posting. I don't see this area in the lube diagram, it appears to me that they are more concerned with lubing the ram.

    Ken's comments made me wonder. I originally thought that the hose with the crimped copper tube on the end was something that was added; but now MAYBE there should be a similar hose with copper tube in the center lube location that is now missing. each hose/tube is to lube the vertical column. This idea looks like it would make sense.
    Am I/we on the right track?

    thanks again guys for helping me out; keep the ideas coming.

    Mike
     
    4gsr likes this.
  5. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Victoria, Texas
    City:
    Victoria
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

    I was thinking pictures of the oil pump, junction station where all of the oil lines branch out from. The oil filter, unless its a Cunio filter.

    The manual Daryl posted only shows oil cups at these locations. I wonder if this was a factory update or if it was something that someone added over the years?
     
  6. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    I'm working this weekend so can't do anything in the garage. What is a Cunio Filter?
     
  7. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Victoria, Texas
    City:
    Victoria
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

    It's a mechanical filtering unit that is operated by turning a handle mounter on the unit. The Cunio unit is mounted flush on the machine housing, somewhere. I'll see if I can find a picture of one. Ken
     
  8. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    I finished draining the oil and found a thick whitish goop on the bottom. I tried to loosen it up by adding diesel. Here are some photos

    oil filter- pump 2.jpg

    I think this is the filter attached to a housing that I assume has the pump.
     
    4gsr likes this.
  9. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    top of pump, oil galley.jpg shaper filter-pump1.jpg
    If you look to the right of the chain you can get a glimpse of the top of the box that I assume is the pump housing. You can see a fitting with a copper oil line.
    The diesel broke up a lot of the "goop" I think I need to use a more aggressive solvent but I don't want to take a chance on damaging anything. Any advice?
     
  10. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Victoria, Texas
    City:
    Victoria
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

    Run some Naptha thru there followed by more diesel or mineral spirits. Your not going to get it completely clean. Boy! If that pump goes down, that would be a nightmare to pull!
     
  11. rrjohnso2000

    rrjohnso2000 United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    28
    City:
    West Lafayette
    State:
    Indiana

    -Return to Top-

    White goop is likely water in oil suspension. If interested in determining you can just heat it above water boiling point. Water leaves and oil is left

    If water is in the system maybe try some alcohol to dry it out

    Good luck
     
  12. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    I agree that the white goop is water in suspension. The diesel emulsified a lot of it and I was able to vacuum it out. What is left seems to be either semi hardened or sticky. I want to get as much if not all of it out before turning the shaper over by hand. I don't want to take a chance of picking up any of this crap and clogging the pump/filter or lines. I don't know how many years this machine sat in a museum's unheated RR shop unused and unloved. I've had it for a few years myself---no excuses for not getting this up an running sooner. I am considering jacking up the rear of the shaper and putting a gallon or so of solvent in the sump and letting gravity help bring the goop away from the pump.
    Please keep the ideas coming.

    Mike
     
  13. rrjohnso2000

    rrjohnso2000 United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    28
    City:
    West Lafayette
    State:
    Indiana

    -Return to Top-

    If it was me. I would fill the sump with diesel/ kerosene and just let it sit, a couple weeks or so. Then I would pick my favorite degreaser and wash it out. Pump all the water out and then another kerosene wash
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2017
    4gsr likes this.
  14. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    Just to give a little update, sump is soaking in Diesel. I'll let it go a few more days before trying to scrub the crud out.
    I rearranged some machines in the garage today. That shaper is one heavy son of a gun to move single handedly.

    Mike
     
  15. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    368
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Woodinville
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    Reach down in there with a long metal prob. Maybe something made out of 5/16 rod with a small bent scraper ground, bent or beat into the end. You can scrape a lot of crud loose this way and scoop it out. Also, I often stuff pieces of oil absorbent towel down into crevices and scrape, probe, otherwise finesse this kind of junk free from oil sumps. Sometimes a long flat head screwdriver works just as well. Always flush a couple of times with diesel to drain/soak it up with absorbant pads. Works great usually!

    Running the machine with a diesel flush for 15 -30 seconds also cleans a lot of junk out of gears and assorted machined surfaces.

    Glenn
     
    Reeltor likes this.
  16. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    Glen, Great minds think alike :)
    Yesterday after I moved this beast to the get it in a better position for use and wiring it up to 3-phase and was looking around for various implements to do just as you suggest.

    QUESTION:
    Does anyone know if the oil pump will pump when the trans is in neutral???
    In the manual that Daryl (Uglydog) posted it seems to say that the ram must be moving to the pump to operate, this manual is from the 1930's. On the other hand, the 1960's Army manual for Mitts & Merrill machines appears to say to power up the shaper in neutral until you have oil at the ram sight windows.
    Can anyone identify the year built from the serial number? G& E serial #3206A4

    Mike
     
  17. Kernbigo

    Kernbigo United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    127
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    so. beloit
    State:
    Illinois

    -Return to Top-

    not to long ago i opened restrictors on a surface grinder using (Krano Kroil penetrating oil) the best stuff in the world
     
  18. Kernbigo

    Kernbigo United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    127
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    so. beloit
    State:
    Illinois

    -Return to Top-

    Testing
     
  19. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    689
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Marlton
    State:
    New Jersey

    -Return to Top-

    I would guess the machines hydraulic driven. Not mechanical? That would be the only reason to run it and let it warm up the oil and get it pumping thru the lines. Pretty sure your pump will only work when the rams moving. Did you turn the motor on and Ck for oil in the lines? More pictures of the whole machine may help.
     
  20. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    This is definitely a mechanical shaper, not hydraulic. The electricals have been cut is several places. So, no cannot attempt a start yet. I wanted to clean decades of dirt and grime off of everything prior to trying to run it.

    I'm going to let it soak a while longer and try to get in under the gears and shafts to pull all the trash out and then I'll find a way to fire it up for testing.
     
  21. willthedancer

    willthedancer United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Portland
    State:
    Oregon

    -Return to Top-

    I have serviced many G&E gear hobbers. As manufacturers go, the quality was exceptional.

    Their typical oiling systems used copper tubing throughout. They would crimp the ends in places to restrict the oil flow to an area at times.

    It should be clear in the service manual if the driven sheave drives the oil pump directly, or if it's on the first shaft. Their hobbers did not run the oil pump from the sheave.

    If I were to buy a shaper today, I'd be looking for one like yours. Nice machine

    The fact that there is oil emulsion in the reservoir tells me that they didn't service it, maybe ever. Check your oil lines for leaks and areas where the copper is wasted.

    Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
     
    4gsr and Reeltor like this.
  22. benmychree

    benmychree United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    284
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Saint Helena
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    I have a 20-24 G&E industrial universal shaper, dates to late 1950s; it has the same oiling system as yours; the pinched down tubes deliver oil to the wells and the surplus runs back into the base through the standpipes in the center, and wool wicking is used, pushed into the holes that lead to the ram ways; pack more into the holes to reduce the amount of oil delivered. On mine, I am relatively sure that the pump runs all the time the motor is running. Mine has an electric clutch / electric brake instead of the normal mechanical friction clutch.
    A 20 /24 is basically a 24" stroke on a 20" frame machine, thus, lighter and less bulky than a straight 24. I assume you have the clear plastic covers that cover the oil pockets?
     
  23. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    I am missing a few of the plastic sites that cover the oil pockets and will have to make some. Most of the oil pockets were missing the packing, the packing that was there are just strips of cloth. Thank you for the info that the wicking should be wool. Do you have any info on the layout to oil the vertical and horizontal ways for the table movement? One wiper holder is missing with just a rubber hose with a copper tube in the end just flopping loose on the table.

    I'm working on the motor and wiring, hopefully it wont be too long before I see is this runs.

    Thanks again for your help and info.

    Mike
     
  24. benmychree

    benmychree United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    284
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Saint Helena
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    I have the manual for mine; I will see if we can scan the relevant pages and send to you.
    Send me a PM with your e mail address.
    John York york@napanet,net
     
  25. Reeltor

    Reeltor United States Active User Active Member

    Likes Received:
    242
    Trophy Points:
    43
    City:
    Lawrenceville
    State:
    Georgia

    -Return to Top-

    Thank you John for the great offer. I really appreciate it.

    email on it's way
     

Share This Page