Still looking for a mill, what does a Burke #4 weigh?

[Jim_cellarshop]

Hi, well I though I would be getting a mill & maybe a lathe last summer, but my funds fell through. I hope to get something this winter. To review I want to work on camers, guns, & watches mostly. Most parts under 6" cubed and I need to get it down in my basement. I have a walk out back door but the side yard is steep & muddy. I have seen a few Burke #4s here, some w/ vertical heads added. What does a #4 weigh? If I took it apart what would the heaviest piece weigh? Are the ways usually in fair shape? Do all #4s only have one T-slot? Can I put a shank cutter (R8, MT3 etc) in the horiz spindle & the vise at 90deg until I can afford / setup a vertical head? Are there any other similar or smaller machines I should look at? My current search list is Clausing 85xx, Harding TM ($$ so far), fall back is a Griz 3102($), RF45($). I would like to keep the cost to about $1500 (so I have a little left for tooling) and not have to spend too much time or money getting up & running. Any other ideas? Thanks for all your help!

 

[AR1911]

A burke #4 is eaily manageable in pieces by one person. I would estimate the upper casting is about 100 lbs. The base is a bit heavier, but it's just a base and you don't have to be that carefull. It all comes apart rather easily.
Even mounted on the cast iron base it can be moved with a two-wheel dolly, especially if you pull off the motor assembly first.
Yes, you can use cutters in a BS#9 collet and turn your vise on it's side.
All I've seen have but the one T-slot.

You know, for your purposes if you can't find a Clausing, I'd consider a X2 minimill or the bigger X3 bench mill from Seig (HF, grizzly etc)

Especially the latter is a fine machine with a generous work envelope, in excess of your 6" cube.

the X2 is a bit under that, with a work envelope about the size of a brick. But for the stated purposes it would probably fit most of your work. for example, you can mill an AR15 receiver in an X2.

Both of these are readily adapted to CNC if that is in the future. Lots of online tech help for both machines, up to and including full CNC retrofit projects

 

[Jim_cellarshop]

Thanks for info & pics! That added 3 slot table is a great idea. Some of these smaller hori mills look like they are pretty ridged as compared to x2, x3 & round col mill/drills. I am going to be working a lot in steel and stainless. A CNCed x3 could make a lot of passes when I wished to take a good deal of steel off, which is a possibliity. Also my thought on a small hori mill is that I could start making chips with a modest investment, and later add a verticle head & DRO. I do not want to go too small because once I add tooling, fixtures & a DRO I will have a fair amount into it & I would like to get something I do not have to upgrade. Does anyone know what the approx XYZ travels are? Are bearings & parts hard to find? I have seen a few smaller hori mills with a lever for the X axis instead of a wheel (called hand or production mills). I guess that it has some type of rack & pinion, for my work (& extreamy low skill level) I think I would be much better off with a std screw X axis. (I did a little work on a Bridgeport & a Cinncinatty vert years ago but that is all.) Any other small mill suggestions? Thanks!! Jim.

 

[Jim_cellarshop]

Thanks for travels info. The 4" Y may be a little tight. If I put a vert head on it eventually then it may be ok. I will need to put a rotary table on it. I would like to go with a 6" rotarty table. I saw a local ad last summer for a #4, I should have at least gone & looked at in in person but I had no money at the time. Do you mean a van Norman 12? or a 1 or 2? A VN 12 may fit in my basement if taken apart enough, but it looks kinda large & complex (lots of gears?). I have not seen any other Van Norman for sale, & the #12s have all been pretty far away. Thanks!, Jim.

 

[Jim_cellarshop]

Hey, that is very cool. Some how I thought they were much bigger than that. I looked at the other Van Norm 1/2 thread & I like the design but thought they would be too large & heavy. I would like to keep the heaviest piece under 400lbs, less would be better. I have moved engine blocks around & I think I could manage up to about 400, more than that & I would be very nervious. I did talk to two riggers about moving a bridgeport, but one did not do residential & the other estimated about $700min. So I will want to move it my self. Thanks a lot for pics! If I see one for sale local, it would be in the running.