1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

    Dismiss Notice

spreading the love..from a Mazak

Discussion in 'CNC IN THE HOME SHOP' started by Zamfir, Apr 22, 2017.

  1. Zamfir

    Zamfir United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Windsor
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    Ok,

    So, I have a Mazak quick turn 20 coming to live in my garage in a couple weeks.

    It weighs around 12000 lbs. Yeah, I did not add a zero by accident.
    The spot in my garage it will sit would cause it to span 4 different slabs and not in a good way.. all on the edges and or corners.

    Making or buying some skates to move it into place. I have a mill and welder.

    Yup, only 4" concrete. So, I am thinking of creative ways of keeping it happy and not break my garage floor all over the place.

    Here are my current thoughts.

    big pieces of 1/2" steel under each foot to spread out the weight.
    or
    I cut 18x18 inch-ish squares in my current floor, dig down about 36" and dig outward at the bottom and pour footers for each foot.

    you see where my head is at.. Any suggestions or experiences here to share?

    Going to be an exciting May here.. lol.


    Thanks!
    Eric
     
    brino likes this.
  2. Tony Wells

    Tony Wells United States Vice President Staff Member Administrator

    Likes Received:
    19,275
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tyler, Texas
    City:
    Tyler
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

    Monolithic slab only for foundation. 5 bag mix, plenty of rebar. 12" thick min. 30% larger than footprint. Expansion joints all around.
     
    cathead and JimDawson like this.
  3. Zamfir

    Zamfir United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Windsor
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    I Know ideally that is what I should have. No way it can happen in this timeframe. I wish it could.
     
  4. FOMOGO

    FOMOGO United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    1,119
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Colorado
    City:
    Steamboat Springs
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    If the substrate is good, I think you will be fine with what you have. The plates certainly won't hurt. Mike
     
  5. Glenn Brooks

    Glenn Brooks H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    294
    Trophy Points:
    63
    City:
    Woodinville
    State:
    Washington

    -Return to Top-

    A 12" square steel plate = 144sq inches. So with 4 plates you will be supporting about 3000 # on each plate for a surface loading of around 22#/square inch. Very light loading. I wouldn't worry at all about the foundation slab at this level of loading. You could probably play with the math and determine that with adjusting pads having around 4 sq inches surface area, perhaps you don't even need the steel plates. (750lb/sq inch loading).

    That's about what the average size pick up loads on your garage floor.

    If you opt for the steel plates, likely 1/4" to 3/8" plate would be more than adequate to support the weight. And a lot cheaper than 1/2".

    Glenn.
     
    brino likes this.
  6. brino

    brino Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,022
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Almonte
    State:
    Ontario

    -Return to Top-

    Hi Eric,

    This is the milling machine I have in my garage:
    http://hobby-machinist.com/members/brino.28808/
    Cincinnati tells me it's 11,000lbs with the vertical head installed.

    Back when I got it I was worried too. But I did the math (like Glenn shows above).
    Sure it's heavy, but with the size of the base of the machine I determined the load was not unreasonable.
    However, I do NOT have it near an edge or corner of a slab.

    The one suggestion I do have is to forget the machinery skates for this; put it on heavy plates and use pipes or even solid bar rollers under that. That will spread the load better and not punch any holes thru the slab with the skates.

    Yours will be different; yours has feet mine is a solid flat base, but here's what I did....maybe it will give some ideas:

    When it was delivered I had the crane place it on pipes upon a sheet of 3/4" plywood just outside the garage door. I had previous raked up the gravel to make the top of the sheet the same as the floor height. Keep the pull point very low! With that and a come-along and good anchor (my pickup truck on the patio with a chain thru the back door) I was able to pull it into the garage. Slow, methodical and keep moving pipes to the front, don't let the front tip down until it's fully on the slab.

    Once on the slab I slowly pulled without replacing the pipes until the machine base was flat on the slab. Then I wrapped a chain around the base and (again slowly!) spun it exactly into position.

    Note however: I am NOT a mechanical engineer, rigger, machine installer. I'm just saying what worked for me. Use at your own risk.

    What ever you do please be careful!
    (.......and get us a bunch of pictures, too!)

    -brino
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  7. Zamfir

    Zamfir United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Windsor
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks for the input!

    I was thinking maybe to help out the multiple slab issue, I could get 3 lengths of 6 foot by 8" 1/4 thick steel and lay them from foot to foot along the width. That could spread the load even more and help bridge between slabs?
    Since the machine is 5 foot wide 6 foot would give a nice overlap.

    I never thought I would be getting anything of this size let alone so soon. Shoot, it will sit for a while until I can afford a 20hp phase perfect. All of this was in the plans in a year or so but for the price on a known good working machine from a friend..I just gotta figure out a way to make it work. I will never come close to needing all this thing could give nor will I ever see a price point like this. ohh man. Can not stop thinking on it.

    Ohh I will get pictures..
     
    brino likes this.
  8. Zamfir

    Zamfir United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Windsor
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    Here it is during its last move.
     

    Attached Files:

    f350ca, brino, Boswell and 1 other person like this.
  9. Metal

    Metal United States Active Member Active Member

    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    28
    City:
    Buffalo
    State:
    New York

    -Return to Top-

    I would cut a 1/4" or so slot about a foot out from where the machine will sit

    If it /does/ start to crack the concrete, it will be easy to detect and the crack will follow the slot (like a sidewalk) rather than ruin the entire garage pad
     
  10. Zamfir

    Zamfir United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Windsor
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    The festivities start tomorrow with a 6 hr drive up to meet the lathe and get 1/2 a day to train on it under power. Then Monday it will follow me home.
    I rearranged my shop layout and changed where the lathe will live. Now it will only be on 2 pads and right in the center of them both. That makes me feel a little better!

    After cruzing through the web me and my friend whipped this toe jack together using 1/2" steel plate and a 10 ton bottle jack. She ain't pretty but I think she has just the right amount of character and beef. It lifted my Blazer without a grunt. Tomorrow will be the real test.
     

    Attached Files:

    JimDawson and brino like this.
  11. Tony Wells

    Tony Wells United States Vice President Staff Member Administrator

    Likes Received:
    19,275
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Tyler, Texas
    City:
    Tyler
    State:
    Texas

    -Return to Top-

    That have the Mazatrol control on it? If so it's not bad. Conversational programming or if you have CAM you can get a postprocessor that will spit out the G-code. I've spent a little time on an 18n I believe it was. Brand new, very tight accurate machine.If it has the tool presetter on the arm, be careful. If you run over it, it's pretty pricey.

    After about 5 years, the display failed and I had to get a generic flat panel and do a bit of adapting, but brought it to life. By the way, we had a Hyundai the same size, same color, all interchangeable parts. Couldn't say who really builds them for sure, but would bet it's Hyundai. I wouldn't mind having one. They are good starter machines for a small shop.
     
  12. Zamfir

    Zamfir United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Windsor
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    Yes it has the Mazitrol on it. And I will be finding the post processor for sure because cam is what I am used to using. And simulAtion has saved my bacon many times. The conversational control will be interesting to learn. On the road now! Whohoo!
     
  13. T Bredehoft

    T Bredehoft Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    1,156
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    City:
    St. Louisville
    State:
    Ohio

    -Return to Top-

    While the Mazitrol is not simple, it's good, once you get on to it. I had the two day course in Kentucky, was able to start working as soon a st he machine was installed. I did have previous experience on a Mazak mill, but the lathe was entirely different. Granted, this was 20 years ago.
    I'm sorta glad I don't have one now, I'd be tempted to play on it all the tilme. I am envious of your good fortune.
     
  14. Zamfir

    Zamfir United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Windsor
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    Wow! She is bigger in real life!
    Everything works great. Interface is very intuitive and it comes with all kinds of manuals and such. Spins up great. Hefty ass pneumatic chuck and tailstock. He is throwing in a couple 6" 4 jaw chucks and the soft jaws to mount them into. And one fresh soft jaw and the a couple cut already for 1" stock and one for 3 " stock. Only surprise is ther is no coolant tray. Coolant pump and all that but no tray.

    The toe jack lifted the entire heavy end without any strain at all! That was very satisfying and a load off my mind.

    Did I mention it sure seems bigger in real life! Wow. This is a lot of machine and I am soooo fine with that! (Lucky actually. Very very lucky)

    Now tomorrow for the haul back down the hill and then the exciting part of the move into the garage.
     

    Attached Files:

    JimDawson likes this.
  15. brino

    brino Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,022
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Almonte
    State:
    Ontario

    -Return to Top-

    Great work on the toe-jack, another "tool in the crib" for when you need it.
    I thought it looked big until you showed it beside the lathe!

    Be safe!

    -brino
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  16. Zamfir

    Zamfir United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Windsor
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    Success!
    What a long stressful day. The planning and thinking worked out. And we got lucky as hell with the weather. Snow at Vail Pass and windshield breaking hail and flooding all along the root home after we got down the mountain. We missed all of it by 20 min. Blessed is what it was.
    Steps:
    Wrecker dragged it out of the shop
    Short trip to metal distribution location and a big forklift to remove it from wrecker and transfer to trailer.
    Big key here was three 12 foot 4x4's laying down on the wood and partial metal grate trailer for later.
    Another awesome idea the driver had was to put the tarp half under the 4x4s then machine on the 4x4's then fold tarp over the front of the machine. Then 3 rolls of duct tape wrapped around the machine after all is tied down and a big strap. The duct tape helped a ton with tarp flap and it lasted the full 6 hr drive. Thank god since we got dumped on many times.
    Then, timing it with traffic, meet up with another wrecker at the end of my street for the transfer off the trailer onto the wrecker.
    Wrecker bed backed up to the 4x4's just below the machine bottom. Then pull it off. Used teflon slide wedges under the 2front feet. Pulled it on and drove to the garage.
    Wrecker slid its bed back and angled up. Lucky there was just enough clearance. He had to jiggle the bed back and forward and scooted the lathe off inch by inch. Then when enough was hanging off the back he tilted it up so I could get the skate under it then angled it back up. Now as he let out the winch and I steered it where I wanted it to go. Then before the last part came off the bed we slipped a skate under each side on the back. Man those homemade skates did the trick. I got to borrow them since the driver was heading back there. It should have worked the same with the hillman rollers.
    Then 3 of us pushed it and pulled it into place. Toe jack one end. Slide 4" half inch thick plates under each foot remove skates lower. Repeat for other side. Back to the day job tomorrow. Dang it!!
     

    Attached Files:

    4gsr, JimDawson and brino like this.
  17. brino

    brino Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    2,022
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Almonte
    State:
    Ontario

    -Return to Top-

    Do you have any pictures of those?

    Jeez, Doesn't your employer know that this addition to the family warrants some time off to get to know each other?

    That is one big lathe.
    Congrats on the successful move!

    -brino
     
  18. Zamfir

    Zamfir United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    Windsor
    State:
    Colorado

    -Return to Top-

    brino likes this.

Share This Page