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South Bend 9a Restoration (pic Heavy)

Discussion in 'MACHINE RESTORATION & WAY SCRAPING' started by wildo, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    OUCH!! 75 lbs of force!!! Wait a minute, that's 150 lbs of force!!! Double ouch!!!

    You going to break something putting that kind of force on that lathe. It don't take more than a few pounds of force to detect play in the spindle.
    150 lbs of force is going to move things and give you a false reading on your tenths reading indicator.

    Ken
     
  2. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks for your advice, Ken- this is all new to me so I really do appreciate it! Do you think there's a typo in the book? This is all I really have to go by:

    IMG_6184_zpsppbuf7sf.jpg

    IMG_6185_zpsajylayq2.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

  3. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    So far so good!! Spindle clearance is right on! 4gsr- that was a really good call to test now before full assembly because it was very difficult to get the shims back in. The last guy to mess with them must have hammered on them or something, because the edge of the slot where they go into the head was kind of mashed up. I had to carefully file the lip so that the shims could be inserted. Even at that, I was only able to get a portion of the shim stack in there that I had initially taken out. I thought that might be ok, but when I tightened the head bolts to "about 20 pounds of force" it locked the spindle.

    So I turned some cone wedges out of hardwood on my wood lathe, put the wedges facing in on each side of the bearing bore, and tightened the wedges together with a piece of threaded rod run through them. This expanded the shim gap just big enough to barely be able to get ALL of the shims back in that I initially removed. After that, I could tighten the head bolts to spec, and I measure .002" clearance both front and back. Right on spec!

     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
  4. hermetic

    hermetic United Kingdom Active User Active Member

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    and most of that clearance will disappear when the oil gets in the gap! Excellent work!
    Phil
     
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  5. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    It has been a while since I've posted in this one, but the work continues. I'm really not sure how some of you can knock out such beautiful machine restorations at lightening speed! I don't think I work particularly slowly, but this sure is taking forever! Regardless, I'm having a good time doing it...

    The countershaft assembly was really holding me up from assembling the lathe head since I need to put a new serpentine belt on there and don't yet know the belt length. For whatever reason, the countershaft assembly just did NOT seem like it would be fun to mess with. Of course it really wasn't bad, but I didn't have a ton of motivation to work on it. I started with the ugly green motor. I pulled it apart, pressed off the bearings, replaced them with new ones, and painted the motor:
    12968113_10154152147857235_1545036671757813272_o_zpsxhp6sr8h.jpg

    12967369_10154152147847235_3660890313655178805_o_zpsfu5xagcd.jpg

    13029457_10154164381152235_388302302166136855_o_zpsmcna1m8o.jpg

    13029508_10154171725692235_3615968766533321862_o_zps2zfpflv5.jpg


    The countershaft was disassembled, stripped, and repainted. I actually bought a second one on ebay for just $40 with the intention of learning how to line bore on it as a project. I want to bore it out to insert these oilite bearings I purchased. Obviously I can't bore my countershaft stand while the lathe is running, so the second one was the right price.
    13029590_10154180157212235_8656491749780866402_o_zpsag6vut5u.jpg


    IMG_6609_zpsjiwvrzlw.jpg

    IMG_6608_zpsiy0vqgev.jpg


    The tailstock, milling attachment, and a ton of other parts were stripped and repainted. It took me forever to mask all those parts!
    12973341_10154163613387235_3033572768112386107_o_zpsetmdc8xm.jpg

    13071943_10154184892687235_68470186595352744_o_zpsbtt6llhk.jpg

    It sure does bring me great joy to see this table filling up though!
    IMG_6599_zpssrlyts3j.jpg


    I picked up a couple super cool accessories that are also getting painted. Telescoping steady rest and follow rest. I'm especially excited about the follow rest because even though it's not often used, my understanding is that the telescoping follow rest is not particularly common.
    IMG_6604_zpsmdgcld5z.jpg

    13072692_10154180307682235_9005461082033256733_o_zps6sbjdh6a.jpg

    13040830_10154182319237235_1115406957486257514_o_zpsh0taqxur.jpg


    And finally, I did do the spindle takeup bearing mod as well:
    13055865_10154182443652235_3946318080087272877_o_zpsjlmcqyt6.jpg


    ...Next up will be mounting the countershaft to the bench so I can accurately measure for the serpentine belt. Then final head assembly. What's left is the quick change gear box and the saddle.
     

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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
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  6. LucknowKen

    LucknowKen Active Member Active Member

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    Nice machine. Great photos. Awesome run through. Thanks for that.
    Lken
     
  7. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    Glad you're enjoying the photos!
     
  8. LucknowKen

    LucknowKen Active Member Active Member

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    It is the photos that have turned me green with envy.
    You have done a great job! The counter shaft motor turned out sweet.
     
  9. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    That motor was UGLY! I think it's just some farm replacement motor- I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like anything special. I just couldn't leave it green like that after putting so much work into the rest of the parts. It was fun to tear that motor apart. My uncle has done electric motor repair for years and years and years. I'm no slouch on the matter, but certainly nowhere near as established as him. He was able to walk me through ever step of the tear down via phone, which- I wouldn't have thought would be needed; tearing a motor down is not exactly difficult. But there were some real gotchyas that I would have messed up without a more experienced guide. So that was nice.

    Quick lesson: I kept saying "the armature, the armature" and he kept correcting "the rotor." Turns out that if the center shaft has windings on it, THEN it would be an armature. But if the center shaft has no windings- just iron cores like you see in the photos, that is called a rotor. I hadn't realized there was a distinction. Learn something new every day!
     
  10. pythonwill

    pythonwill United States Active Member Active Member

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    Very nice work!!!
    I especially like your motor mount on your counter shaft assembly, is that original? mine doesnt have that mount, it just bolts right onto the assembly. I also like your matching follower rest and Steady rest, very nice

    om%2Falbums%2Fn216%2Fwillydemis%2FMachine%2520Shop%2FSouth%2520Bend%25209%2FIMG_6608_zpsiy0vqgev.jpg
     
  11. pythonwill

    pythonwill United States Active Member Active Member

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    next question, when you put in your new bearings how are you going to keep oil in there, if you line bore the countershaft holes and press in the bushing there wont be a keyway for the felt to set in, will you just cut a keyway into your countershaft? I am going through this right now, I am having mine line bored now. I was planning on just cutting a keyway into the shaft and hoping that would work. I am also going to mount oil drip cups on the top of each side
     
  12. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    Good observation on that motor mount. Actually, I hadn't given any thought to it, but checking some reference photos- that does appear to be an interesting mount. I'm not sure if it's an original SB part or not. It's cast aluminum, and not much on this lathe is aluminum- so perhaps it isn't. Then again, the bull gear guard is cast aluminum, so SB did do some aluminum parts anyway. I guess the answer is: I'm not sure.

    Regarding the oilite bearings, I have more research to do there. The bearings don't have a slot cut in them, and when pressed in there is still a gap between the two, presumably directly below the gits oilers. I'm not sure if any modification needs done other than perhaps filling the old felts slot with JB Weld. I don't believe that felts are used in the newer countershaft versions with the oilite bearings. I could be wrong... This is a project for much further down the road. I'm not even sure if line boring is the appropriate method here since the bore bar could only be .750" diameter anyway. Too much flex in the boring bar itself? No idea... I just embraced the opportunity to pick up the parts at a cheap price for a future project.
     
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  13. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    Threading Nameplate Restoration

    I decided I wanted to try my hand at restoring the brass threading nameplate. I know that you can get reproduction ones on ebay, but they are just screen printed. I liked the raised brass letters better. This wasn't a particularly easy project because the panel was a bit beat up in the first place. But here's how I tackled it. Overall, there's some places I wish it turned out better, but I'm really proud of the results anyway. Kind of cool to restore the original plate!

    The real key to success here is liquid mask, which you can pick up at a hobby/craft store. The details are far to fine to be able to mask with masking tape. The liquid mask is clear when dry:
    IMG_6649_zpshvlczlu5.jpg

    I masked off the areas I wanted black so that I wouldn't get too thick a layer of paint on the background. Then I sprayed the plate red: IMG_6650_zpsjtmdgfpi.jpg

    After the paint dried, I removed the masking:
    IMG_6651_zpsvzhdkp3h.jpg

    ...and wet sanded with 1000 grit paper. I started by putting the paper on glass, and rubbing the plate on it. But since the plate wasn't smooth and flat, I ended up sanding too far in some areas and not far enough in others. I found that it was far better to put the plate down and sand with the paper in my hand. This was my first time doing this, so live & learn.
    IMG_6656_zps2debwwpc.jpg

    I then masked the areas that I just painted red. Again, note the liquid mask over the S:
    IMG_6658_zpsrllkhss2.jpg

    ...and sprayed black on the black areas:
    IMG_6660_zpsknpcczie.jpg

    Prior to wet sanding, it looked like this:
    IMG_6678_zpsqvq2ikd8.jpg

    After sanding, the plate looked like this. To be honest, I was pretty disappointed in the results. The lower left area where I sanded too far bothered me. And the black background was pretty messed up in the name box area. I thought about stopping here, but just couldn't bring myself to admit defeat: 139_zpsim1al5g7.jpg

    So I masked of the raised lettering and resprayed both colors: 141_zpsfl52edoj.jpg

    140_zpsigcm9veu.jpg

    After that things were MUCH better. I still had a couple exposed areas of brass in the background. For the black, I colored them in with a black sharpie which worked really well. For the red I used a red sharpie, but the color is off. I think it's still probably better than the brass splotches all over. Finally I sprayed a flat clear coat over it to try to dull the shine of the sharpie marker with the sanded color paint. Here is my final result, which (besides the red sharpie) I'm really happy with!
    IMG_6854_zpsvvbuffsr.jpg
     
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  14. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    Collet Rack Restoration

    I picked up a SB collet rack off ebay which was full of extra holes. It still wasn't cheap, but it was cheaper than normal since it had a ton of holes all over. I figured I could fill the holes with JB Weld, which worked just fine. I also used a little bondo to smooth the transition from the cast aluminum to JB Weld in some areas. This one turned out nice as well!

    Here is the rack as I received it. Tons of extra holes all over:
    143_zpsafxaae4z.jpg

    I filled the holes with JB Weld. The large slot in the tray area required a little bondo to get the transition smooth. I didn't take a photo of that:
    150_zpsvfgbwyqs.jpg

    Here it is painted to match the lathe:
    153_zpsuqguow49.jpg

    I painted the mount as well. I kind of polished the vertical shaft, but it's pretty old and gnarly. It looks fine like this:
    154_zpsjtpifghi.jpg
     
  15. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    Quick Change Gearbox

    My final project for the weekend was wrapping up the quick change gearbox. I started this a couple weeks ago, but there was a lot to this thing. I guess I didn't really take a before pic, but it was absolutely filthy, grimy, disgusting, and greasy inside. Everything got degreased and scrubbed. The casting was paint stripped and repainted:
    IMG_6681_zpsf7bme45t.jpg

    I found a thread while researching how to restore the threading nameplate that indicated that this was a good time to do some machining on the gearbox casting to better the oiling system. The restoration manual did cover part of this, but not all of it. So I was glad to find that thread. The biggest thing was to drill out both sides of the oil galley so that you could really get in there and clean everything. So to start, I drilled out the factory plug on the right side:
    145%20copy_zpsk7lgjswl.jpg

    Then I was able to use the galley itself as a guide for a really long 1/4" drill bit in order to drill out the left side of the galley. The longest bit I had was 6" which was just long enough:
    146%20copy_zpse9rfdgie.jpg

    Now the oil galley goes all the way through the casting:
    147%20copy_zpswiblwsud.jpg

    ...and the oil passages on the left side of the casting can actually be cleaned:
    148%20copy_zpsjj0m3s06.jpg

    I also replaced both of the bronze bearings in the gearbox with bronze oilite bearings. The needle bearings in the tumblers were replaced as well, though I didn't take a picture of that:
    149%20copy_zps5bxux8wt.jpg

    Both the right and left side of the oil galley were drilled to letter F and tapped 5/16-18. Set screws were fixed in place with a careful application of loctite. The set screw on the right side had to be shortened to just shy of 1/4" while the set screw on the left side had to end up a very small 1/8". To make the set screw this short, I had to grind material off of both the top side and the thread side. This was to ensure the oil passages weren't blocked. I also drilled out a new hole for a right-side Gits oiler, and replaced the old oiler with a matching new one. Now the oil galley doesn't need to supply both sides of oil passages quite as efficiently since I can put oil in on either side. IMG_6851_zpsftifcybs.jpg

    IMG_6850_zpspfuxcpi8.jpg

    The gearbox was reassembled taking care to set the proper clearances on the top shaft:
    IMG_6842_zpsyy9fmqdo.jpg

    And finally the gearbox is complete:
    IMG_6849_zps70pkldx6.jpg

    IMG_6848_zpsscpcrpls.jpg

    IMG_6847_zpsqigcw7pz.jpg

    Next up, I can finalize the position on the bench where I want the lathe, mount the countershaft assembly, measure for the drive belt length, and then finish assembling the head. After that all that's left is the carriage, which is still a grimy mess:
    IMG_6857_zpsphhxnhxz.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
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  16. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    Almost 300 new views on this thread since I posted the update last Sunday. I have to say- I really thought that name plate restoration would draw some comments. I am really proud of how well that thing turned out!

    I did get the saddle and apron torn all apart, degreased, and paint stripped throughout last week and this weekend, but I haven't had chance to move further on them. I think that the saddle is kind of rough in the casting, so I plan on smoothing it just a bit with some bondo. Otherwise, just lots of masking and paint. All the gears seem to be in OK shape, but I did notice that the worm gear moved around quite a bit in the retaining sleeve. I'm not sure if that's ok, as the restoration guide made no mention of this in the disassembly section. I haven't read the apron assembly section yet, so perhaps it'll mention it in there.

    I did replace the compound lead screw nut, and the cross slide one seemed to be on OK shape. The half nut threads were still square (acme) and didn't seem to be worn to points. So overall, I think I've purchased the last of what I need to finish this thing off.
     
  17. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hey, your nameplate/ threading chart looks nice! For a first time restore. In fact it's nicer than I would have done. The name plate on my 9" SBL is pretty beat up, not worth restoring. I can still read the numbers, that's all that counts on my lathe. I'll let my next generation of kids worry about restoring it, if they don't sell it first!
     
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  18. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks for the comment! I was surprised nobody really said much about it. I know I'm pretty damn proud of how it turned out, ESPECIALLY because it's the first time I've done it.
     
  19. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    wildo,

    I'd be proud too! You did a very nice job there restoring your 9"SBL.

    I have my dad's that I learned on years ago. It started out as a 9"C, born in 1949. Later in life, I bought a worn out QCGB and apron to make it a 9"A. Recondition the entire lathe 12 years ago, but didn't paint it. I like the way your paint job came out. What type of paint did you use? Ken

    Edit: Just found your earlier post on the type of paint you used. B. M. brand.
    Your lathe has the same bed length on it as mine 42". There's very little changes on these lathes from about 1939 and later. I bought a 1943 model A for my brother a couple years back that was in mint shape for its age. In comparison with mine, I could not find any differences. Ken
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  20. Fairbanks

    Fairbanks Active User Active Member

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    Too pretty! Nice job!
     
  21. rwm

    rwm Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Great work! I especially love the paint you chose. What kind, color, brand?
    I'm just glad you will not have guests using this nice machine while you are asleep.
    R
     
  22. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    More nameplate restoration. Glad to have these wrapped up. Speaking of- I'm hoping to wrap up the last of the painting on the carriage assembly this weekend. I'm getting close!

    I got smart on these nameplates. I used Testers brand gloss enamel on the nameplate for my quick change gear box. After wet sanding it, the gloss was dulled to a flat luster- except in the pits and valleys of the nameplate (remember this is a restoration, not a replacement/replica: it has a few dings/dents/pits). I didn't like that much because I couldn't get the random gloss spots sanded down to a flat luster. So this time around I tested using the Testers brand flat enamel and had much better results. I did still spray the final product with a coat of matte clear to "smooth" everything over. I think they turned out nice!
    FullSizeRender%2012_zpsjqbk3b4u.jpg

    IMG_7291_zpsmpmkobny.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
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  23. pythonwill

    pythonwill United States Active Member Active Member

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    Very nice work!
     
  24. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    Sorry- apparently I missed this comment. See the second post in this thread for all details on the paint.
     
  25. toolman_ar

    toolman_ar United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    wildo,
    Just read your whole thread, very nice work.

    I noticed in Post 20, the bull gear cover looks like an old brake shoe lining... Glad you found a factory part.

    I am getting ready to start on a SB13 and am gathering info, thank you for posting your progress.

    toolman_ar
     
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  26. rwm

    rwm Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Very nice. I like the low gloss paint you used.
    R
     
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  27. Matthew Gregory

    Matthew Gregory United States Active User Active Member

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    What an astonishing transformation!!!!


    Gotta hand it to ya - the nameplates look great, and are a well deserved detail and a nice touch.
     
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  28. wildo

    wildo Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks everyone for the compliments! I've been working on this off and on since the last post; summer is a REALLY busy time for me with dog sport competitions, and as such I haven't been quite as dedicated to the lathe. I do have the entire carriage assembly back together! Last night I finally cleaned up the cone pulley for the countershaft assembly and finished putting it together. Tonight if I find time, I think I'll wrap up the back gear shaft and finally put the spindle in place for good. I had been waiting on putting the spindle together thinking that I was going to get a continuous belt for the lathe, but now I think I'll go on ebay and buy one of those pre-skived endless belts that you glue together. If anyone has an opinion on the endless belt vs the laced belt- I'm all ears. Seems to me that the laced belt is both louder as the lacing hits the pulleys, and more likely to slip a little when the lacing is directly over the pulleys since it's metal to metal contact. Of course, the laced belt can be installed/removed without disassembling the lathe components.

    The big surprise is that I really, really want to maintain the original (rare) pushbutton FWD/STOP/REV switches rather than mounting a drum switch. A buddy of mine is 3D printing a switch plate that I drew up. Originally I was going to use switch contactors in order to use cheaper "electronic" sized switches, but after pricing out how much the reversing contactors would be, and considering that there's no question I will want to upgrade to variable speed in the future, I decided to pull the trigger on a 1HP Baldor 3Ph motor upgrade and VFD. With the VFD I get the variable speed and, more importantly, the ease at controlling the motor for FWD/STOP/REV buttons. The upgrade just made sense. I'm still waiting on him to finish up the switch plate, but otherwise- I do think the lathe restoration is more/less just about wrapped up!!

    Of course I'll post more photos of the final stuff a bit later. Like I said, I've just been a bit busy with some other things right now.

    [EDIT]- Here are the only pictures I have with me at work at the moment. I'll post these up as a "teaser" to the finished photos.

    The apron was completely disassembled, degreased, and repainted. A couple of the gears in the apron had what I considered to be excessive wear, so I replaced them with less-worn units I found on ebay. I opted to paint the inside as well, though I read AFTER the fact that the restoration manual says this isn't always a good idea since the oil will eventually break down the paint and then paint chips can cause excessive wear on the gears. Honestly, I don't see this being a huge issue. This is a hobby lathe, not a production lathe... I painted all surfaces that weren't machined- including the arms on the half nuts (but not the threads on the half nuts, of course).
    IMG_7352_zps7tu0idgb.jpg

    IMG_7450_zpsruqqicnk.jpg

    All of the levers and handwheels were polished by putting them on arbors (typically just a bolt captured with a nut on the other side) and spun in my drill press. I used a green scotchbrite pad at first, and then finished with a grey scotchbrite pad. This produced a nice finish!
    IMG_7451_zps4rm9macu.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
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  29. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'm not sure where that guy got his information, it's not correct. But as I said before, 75 lbs is way too much force to apply for this test. On a larger lathe in the 16"-20" range, yes, but not on a 9" SBL.

    EDIT: I got this way out of sync. Oh well...
     
  30. george wilson

    george wilson United States Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Virginia
    To make your laced together belts SILENT,you can lace them with copper wire. But,on the flesh side of the belting,which touches the pulleys,carefully cut "V" grooves deep enough for the copper wires to lay in so they don't touch the pulleys.

    This is the recommended way to fix belts to run silently. The hair side of the leather is where the strength is,so you do not appreciably weaken the belt by cutting the grooves., Just don't get sloppy or carried away with the depth of the grooves.

    I made such a belt many years ago,and it has lasted through many years of use without the joint failing.
     
    wildo likes this.

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