Something amazing is coming....

[skcncx]

Late to the party here, but I'm on the edge of buying the HTP 2500. I want to add pulse modes and AC tig for aluminum in my set of options.

Having a Fronius TransSteel 2200 which just does spray transfer, no pulse modes, I've had little to no issues pushing (no spool gun or push pull gun) running a 15 foot lead mig gun using 4043 .047 wire. It can be done with the right liner and mig gun. Ironically for the liner, Fronius doesn't even recommend a graphite or plastic liner, just their correctly sized combination liner that looks like a standard steel wire liner. Given, you are limited to the larger .047 wire, but I've been pretty happy with it down to 1/8" thick aluminum.

If I go the HTP 2500 route, I'm likely to add a 12-15 foot lead from Kemppi or Binzel, not cheap, but they have liners for aluminum and do push only 12-15 foot leads with aluminum all the time... but you have to stay with larger wire. I'll be curious to know if I have the same success as my Fronius if I go this route.... I'll only know if I try.

HTP has been great, since I've asked them a lot of "newbie" questions regarding options for pulse, double pulse and what I can expect converting from my Fronius 2200 to HTP 22500. There are so many variables at play... for the uninitiated it does feel a bit overwhelming to know what to expect. I'm a hobby welder at best.

 

[General Zod]

Aside from those unknowns you mentioned about pushing aluminum through the other brand 12/15ft MIG guns, let me know if you have any questions. I don't have any 12/15ft MIG guns so I can't check it out for ya. But anything else is surely fair game. Have you already seen the videos that have been posted up on YouTube? I'll be messing with mine today and all weekend to finish grabbing some footage/arc shots and make a few videos. Theres just so much to cover and talk about!

 

[skcncx]

Aside from those unknowns you mentioned about pushing aluminum through the other brand 12/15ft MIG guns, let me know if you have any questions. I don't have any 12/15ft MIG guns so I can't check it out for ya. But anything else is surely fair game. Have you already seen the videos that have been posted up on YouTube? I'll be messing with mine today and all weekend to finish grabbing some footage/arc shots and make a few videos. Theres just so much to cover and talk about!

I have tried to watch as many videos as possible, it's such a new machine, there's not a lot.

I think one of the biggest upsides and but I'm not sure how much I'll fully appreciate and can make use of is the MIG Pulse and Double Pulse on aluminum. I mainly run 4043 .047 wire on 1/8" to 1/4" thick stock with my Fronius.

I'm understanding they don't have synergic modes for Pulse and double pulse for ER4043 .047 wire. Though they do for .035 wire, but stepping down to .035 or .040 will limit me to a 9ft lead if I want reliability. That seems unanimous across the board for the soft 4043 wire.

Talking to Kemppi about their mig guns and aluminum liners and the HTP 2500, it should be able to handle pulse and double pulse for 4043 and .047 wire just fine..... I just don't have a good sense for how complicated to setup it up and use on that machine for the less experienced welder. I'm under the assumption that I'm left with setting the amps, wire speed, voltage, peak amp, background amp, frequency pulses per second and for double pulse the off time portion of the extra pulse.... that seems like a lot to dial in and get it right...a bit fear of the unknown.

 

[General Zod]

I have tried to watch as many videos as possible, it's such a new machine, there's not a lot.

I think one of the biggest upsides and but I'm not sure how much I'll fully appreciate and can make use of is the MIG Pulse and Double Pulse on aluminum. I mainly run 4043 .047 wire on 1/8" to 1/4" thick stock with my Fronius.

On aluminum, Pulse-MIG is extremely valuable because it allows for much easier out-of-position welds compared to standard axial spray transfer. Double-Pulse can help control heat input because there is a period of low heat input at the base, can create "dimes" for aesthetics, but also produces some desirable effects:

• (1) A periodical welding current generates an oscillation of arc force and droplet pressure, which produces a weld pool stir effect.
• (2) Periodical heat input generates expansion and shrinkage of the weld pool, which causes an unusual remelting and resolidification of the previously solidified metal. DP-GMAW has an increased solidification growth rate and cooling rate compared with conventional pulsed welding at the same heat input.
• (3) Microstructural refinement of fusion metal by DP-GMAW is reported by several researchers. The mechanism of microstructural refinement is revealed as combined effect of the weld pool stir effect and an increased cooling rate. The numerical and experimental results indicate that a refined microstructure can be achieved by adjusting the pulsing parameters instead of changing the heat input. DP-GMAW features diverse grain orientation due to the expansion and shrinkage of the weld pool.
• (4) The weld pool stir effect improves the fluidity of liquid metal in the molten pool. Therefore, a larger number of hydrogen bubbles have a chance to float out and release from the molten pool, and fewer hydrogen bubbles are trapped in the solidification wall and form pores.
• (5) Improved solidification cracking susceptibility is achieved due to refined solidification structures by DP-GMAW.

Source: Perspective on Double Pulsed Gas Metal Arc Welding, Applied Sciences Sept 2017.

Talking to Kemppi about their mig guns and aluminum liners and the HTP 2500, it should be able to handle pulse and double pulse for 4043 and .047 wire just fine..... I just don't have a good sense for how complicated to setup it up and use on that machine for the less experienced welder. I'm under the assumption that I'm left with setting the amps, wire speed, voltage, peak amp, background amp, frequency pulses per second and for double pulse the off time portion of the extra pulse.... that seems like a lot to dial in and get it right...a bit fear of the unknown.

I'm glad you mentioned this so I can hopefully clear it up. Pulse-MIG, while it shares some similarity with Pulse-TIG, is a completely different animal. In Pulse-TIG, you can simply turn it On, or turn it off; the ease of which is due to the fact that the tungsten rod is the electrode and is a non-consumable. Nothing else needs to happen other than the tungsten conducting the set currents at the set intervals/ratios.

In Pulse-MIG and Double-Pulse-MIG, you can't simply "add" pulse/DP to just any wire alloy/diameter. Pulse-MIG operation (in general) is not simply the machine/welding current going "low to high to low, etc, etc" the way it is in TIG. Pulse-MIG is a highly specific process due to the fact that the electrode is the filler metal and has to undergo momentary spray transfer (one-droplet-per-pulse (ODPP)), not just simply conduct high/low voltage/currents at user-set arbitrary intervals the way it is in TIG. ← So there is the hidden catch that many don't know about pulse-MIG. The machine's software has to be preprogrammed (non adjustable internally) with the correct amp-volt curves to assure that proper droplet detachment (ODPP) occurs during pulse-MIG operation, and this operation is wire alloy and diameter specific. So going back to 0.047" ER4043: the reason the 2500 (and the other HTP Pro Pulse 200A MIGs) don't have neither pulse nor double-Pulse for 0.047" ER4043 is because the momentary peak pulse requirement for proper droplet detachment is more than much, much more than 400A! This is irrespective of the user's desired average amperage output; IOW to run 0.047" ER4043 at low overall levels in pulse, you still need to hit the momentary 400A+ peaks to get the proper droplet detachment (← this is the key!), as it is an independent mechanism from the user's set wire-feed speed. Higher average welding amperages/WFS's simply causes the momentary peak pulses to occur more and more often (more droplets delivered). In the 2500 (and other HTP 200A MIGs), The power supply is only capable of ~300A for the momentary peaks, so given the fact that to have double-Pulse means you have to have single-pulse-MIG operation in the first place, it tells us that it's just not happening with this class of machine. On the other hand, the Pro Pulse 300 is a monster with a power supply capable of supplying momentary peaks of ~600A, and that is why it is capable of both single- and double-Pulse for a lot of common aluminum 0.047" wires.

Now for 0.035" ER4043 wire, since the 2500 is capable of proper single-pulse, you do get the added option of fully adjustable double-pulse. This (DP) operation is more akin to Pulse-TIG. Now that the wire is already undergoing proper single-pulse operation, the user can vary the rate of this output by adjusting the pulse parameters that we are familiar with from TIG: welding amps/WFS, base amps/WFS, duty cycle, and PPS (frequency). So here is where the machine is taking care of the single-pulse ODPP mechanism behind the scenes, and then the user sets up the overlay-ed pulse parameters

Hopefully this makes sense.

 

[skcncx]

Hopefully this makes sense.

Uh, clear as mud . No, just kidding. I mean, that is a very helpful explanation. I've been back and forth with HTP about it because I just wasn't "getting it" and the manual is a bit out of date. I mean, how hard, just program it in, right? Just talked to them as well and they confirmed pulse and double pulse for the HTP 2500 is just NOT and option for ER 4043 wire at the 047 size. It's a physical limitation of components and stuff. I've learned a lot so I appreciate your thorough response and the willingness of HTP to help educate me.

So, I'm resetting my game plan. Sticking with ER 4043 but with a shorter gun length and .035 wire. I'll be able to get mig pulse and double pulse. It's also worth a try running .040 wire on the .035 settings and see what happens.

Though, I can run 4043 .047 in spray mode. So, entirely on par with my Fronius TransSteel 2200 (which is up for sale). Great welder, just really want to try pulse mig and ac tig.

Maybe I should give 5356 a try, I can run that .047 pulse and double pulse on the HTP 2500.

Oh, now the choices I must make for tig consumables. Let me know if this is a good starting point.

1. 2% Ceriated Tungsten - 3/32 for aluminum and steel
2. 4043 3/32 filler rod for 1/8" ish material thickness
3. ER70S-6 fillter rod for 1/8" ish material thickness
4. #5 Stubby cup w/standard gas diffuser for aluminum
5. #8 stubby cup w/gas lens for other stuff

I hope that's a good getting started selection to strike and arc and then learn when I need to get from there.

 

[General Zod]

Uh, clear as mud . No, just kidding. I mean, that is a very helpful explanation. I've been back and forth with HTP about it because I just wasn't "getting it" and the manual is a bit out of date. I mean, how hard, just program it in, right? Just talked to them as well and they confirmed pulse and double pulse for the HTP 2500 is just NOT and option for ER 4043 wire at the 047 size. It's a physical limitation of components and stuff. I've learned a lot so I appreciate your thorough response and the willingness of HTP to help educate me.

So, I'm resetting my game plan. Sticking with ER 4043 but with a shorter gun length and .035 wire. I'll be able to get mig pulse and double pulse. It's also worth a try running .040 wire on the .035 settings and see what happens.

Though, I can run 4043 .047 in spray mode. So, entirely on par with my Fronius TransSteel 2200 (which is up for sale). Great welder, just really want to try pulse mig and ac tig.

Maybe I should give 5356 a try, I can run that .047 pulse and double pulse on the HTP 2500.

Oh, now the choices I must make for tig consumables. Let me know if this is a good starting point.

1. 2% Ceriated Tungsten - 3/32 for aluminum and steel
2. 4043 3/32 filler rod for 1/8" ish material thickness
3. ER70S-6 fillter rod for 1/8" ish material thickness
4. #5 Stubby cup w/standard gas diffuser for aluminum
5. #8 stubby cup w/gas lens for other stuff

I hope that's a good getting started selection to strike and arc and then learn when I need to get from there.

Yea you definitely can run .047" ER4043 in regular spray transfer, just run it in manual mode and tweak the settings. For 0.040" wire in the synergic pulse program for 0.035", you might be able to get something working but you will likely have to add a lot of voltage to compensate for the lack of current on the peak pulses. I tried this with steel in my Pro Pulse 200 using 0.035" ER70S-6 wire in the 0.030" pulse program on 92/8 argon-CO₂. Added voltage helps get rid of the irregular sized droplets, but at the expense of having a much wider/larger arc which can at times lead to undercut so it's not without it's drawbacks.

As for TIG consumables:

1. I like 2%Ce, but for aluminum at high amperages, I would go with 1/8" to handle the heat better and not erode the tip as much.
2. In some joint configurations, 1/16" might work better. It's good to have both.
3. I perfer ER70S-2 due to the triple-deoxidizers. ER70S-6 might flow just a smidge better, but it's not worth the cost difference and you need to clean the steel much better.
4. Depending on the cleanliness of the base aluminum, a #5 might not have enough gas coverage. Just depends.
5. #8 is good all-around except for SS or exotic alloys.

 

[skcncx]

For 0.040" wire in the synergic pulse program for 0.035", you might be able to get something working but you will likely have to add a lot of voltage to compensate for the lack of current on the peak pulses. I tried this with steel in my Pro Pulse 200 using 0.035" ER70S-6 wire in the 0.030" pulse program on 92/8 argon-CO₂. Added voltage helps get rid of the irregular sized droplets, but at the expense of having a much wider/larger arc which can at times lead to undercut so it's not without it's drawbacks.

Yea, I figured it would be an experiment I could try in the future.. probably not worth going down that route if the .035 works on well on a 10-12ft gun.

Thanks for the tig input. I'll switch my steel filler to the ER70S-2. I figured, since I mostly do aluminum, I'll have a few difference sizes of tungsten and filler. Maybe I'll start out with 1/8. Just wanted fewer stuff but enough to practice and figure out what I need. Funny, I pulled the #5 cup size for aluminum from watching two main stream youtube tig welders and their suggestions on #5 standard and #8 w/gas lens to cover most stuff. If nothing else, a place for me to start. I tend only to weld new aluminum, clean from mill/supplier.

I'm also going with a tig slider instead of foot pedal. I may end up with both, but in the end, one will likely sit on the shelf and collect dust. I know foot pedal is generally preferred, but since I have zero reference, I figured I'll see if I can get by with the slider.