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Somebody Else's Good Idea for Lathe Tapers

Discussion in 'GENERAL DISCUSSIONS' started by Charles Spencer, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. Charles Spencer

    Charles Spencer Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I recently ordered some of the books from the Workshop Practice Series. Among these was #15, Workholding In The Lathe by Tubal Cain (not Mr. Pete). I saw an excellent idea for using a boring head as an offset tail stock:

    Tailstock Offset.jpg

    I'm going to try this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
    FOMOGO, savarin, brino and 3 others like this.
  2. willthedancer

    willthedancer United States Active Member Active Member

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    That's on my list of tools to make.
    I will have mine do double duty as a boring head for the lathe spindle.

    Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk
     
  3. richz

    richz United States Active User Active Member

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    Does the support that hold the work also tilt. Very interested in making one. Has anyone else made something similar?
     
  4. chips&more

    chips&more United States Active User Active Member

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    I have been using that method for decades. But not with the adjustable angling dead center. I remedy the problem of center hole angle misalignment by using a conical center drill (that's what I call it ?) instead of the standard 60° center drill…Dave.
     
  5. rgray

    rgray Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I have used a homemade boring head in the tailstock for taper turning. I used a 5/16 ball on each end of a piece of 1/4 HSS (with the ends dished) in the boring head 1/2 inch hole with ball bearings for the shaft to turn in. They were a yo-yo bearing.
    Not a rigid set up so light cuts only.
    Much better work for a grinder.
    The boring head pictured looks like it has a carrier made specifically for angling the center to correct point contact.
     
  6. silverhawk

    silverhawk United States Active Member Active Member

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    Are you sure that is not mr. Pete? He has published some "books" as well as his great videos, and I think that is the title of one of them.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  7. savarin

    savarin Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Tom D. Walshaw (1912–1998) was an engineer, author and contributor to the British magazine Model Engineer. Many of his magazine contributions and books were authored under the pseudonym Tubal Cain. The pseudonym relates to the Tubal-cain, the biblical metal worker. As Tubal Cain he made over 424 contributions to Model Engineer, beginning in 1971. These were mainly divided between workshop equipment articles and model stationary engine constructional articles.
    Walshaw published the following under the name 'Tubal Cain'
    • Building the beam engine Mary. Watford, UK: Model & Allied Publications, Argus Books, 1981 (83 p).
    • Building the Overcrank Engine "Georgina".
    • Building the Williamson engine. Watford, UK: Argus Books, 1981 (85p).
    • Model engineers handbook. Watford, UK: Model & Allied Publications, 1981 (170 p). 2nd ed: 1986. 3rd ed: 1996.
    • Hardening, tempering and heat treatment. Workshop practice series no. 1. Hemel Hempstead UK: Argus Books, 1984, (124 p).
    • Milling operations in the lathe. Workshop practice series no. 5. London: Argus Books, 1984 (125 p).
    • Soldering and Brazing. Workshop practice series no. 9. Hemel Hempstead UK: Argus Books, 1985 (136 p).
    • Drills, Taps and Dies. Workshop practice series no. 12. Swanley, England: Nexus Special Interests, 1987 (103 p).
    • Workshop drawing. Workshop practice series no. 13. London: Argus Books, 1988 (110 p).
    • Workholding in the lathe. Workshop practice series no. 15. London: Argus Books, 1987 (111 p).
    • Simple workshop devices. Workshop practice series. Hemel Hempstead, UK: Argus Books, 1980 (127 p).
    • Spring design and manufacture. Workshop practice series no. 19. Hemel Hempstead, UK: Argus Books, 1988 (95 p).
    • Building simple model steam engines. Watford, UK, Model and Allied Publications, 1980 (107 p).
    • Building simple model steam engines. Book 2. Hemel Hempstead, UK: Nexus Special Interests Ltd., 1998 (106 p).
    Lyle Peterson also known as Mr Pete and as Tubalcain produces mainly videos on all aspects of machining.
    Heres the list by subject.
    Videos
    Machine Shop Tips #1 Taps
    Machine Shop Tips #2 Tapping
    Machine Shop Tips #3 Tapping
    Machine Shop Tips #4 Dies/Threading
    Machine Shop Tips #5 Dies/Threading
    Machine Shop Tips #6 Dies/Threading
    Machine Shop Tips #7 Cutting Pipe Threads
    Machine Shop Tips #8 Types of Threads - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #9 Types of Threads - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #10 Identifying Bolt Threads
    Machine Shop Tips #11 Drilling Crossholes tubalcai
    Machine Shop Tips #12 Thread Repair (male)
    Machine Shop Tips #13 Bridgeport Mill - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #14 Bridgeport Mill - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #15 Bridgeport Mill TRAMMING with SPINDLE SQUARE
    Machine Shop Tips #16 Clausing Lathe LH threading
    Machine Shop Tips #17 Threading to Shoulder
    Machine Shop Tips #18 Musing on Lathe Threading
    Machine Shop Tips #19 Sine Bar Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #20 Sine Bar (with SPINDLE SQUARE) - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #21 Micrometers - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #22 Micrometer Quiz - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #23 Internal Threading on the Lathe
    Machine Shop Tips #24 Acme Threading - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #25 Acme Threading - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #26 Transferring Holes - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #27 Transferring Holes - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #28 Hardinge Dividing Head - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #29 Hardinge Dividing Head - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #30 Facing on the Atlas Lathe - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #31 Facing on the Atlas Lathe - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #32 Turning to Dia. on the Atlas Lathe Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #33 Turning to Dia. on the Atlas Lathe Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #34 Turning to a Shoulder on Lathe
    Machine Shop Tips #35 Parting on the Lathe - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #36 Parting on the Lathe - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #37 Parting on the Lathe - Part 3
    Machine Shop Tips #38 Flame Cutting Straight - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #39 Flame Cutting Circles - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #40 Horizontal Bandsaw - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #41 Horizontal Bandsaw - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #42 Horizontal Bandsaw - Part 3
    Machine Shop Tips #43 Vertical Bandsaw - Part 4
    Machine Shop Tips #44 Vertical Bandsaw - Part 5
    Machine Shop Tips #45 Bandsaw Blades - Part 6
    Machine Shop Tips #46 Lathe Project BEARING - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #47 Lathe Project BEARING - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #48 Lathe Project BEARING - Part 3
    Machine Shop Tips #49 Lathe Project Plumb Bob - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #50 Lathe Project Plumb Bob - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #51 Lathe Project Plumb Bob - Part 3
    Machine Shop Tips #52 Buying a Lathe - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #53 Buying a Lathe - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #54 Buying a Lathe - Part 3
    Machine Shop Tips #55 Hole Layout - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #56 Hole Layout - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #57 Bridgeport Mill DRO - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #58 Bridgeport Mill DRO - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #59 Bridgeport Mill Workholding - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #60 Bridgeport Mill Workholding - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #61 Atlas Lathe Gibs - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #62 Atlas Lathe Gibs - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #63 Clausing Lathe Gibs - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #64 Clausing Lathe Gibs - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #65 Lathe Project Pulley - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #66 Lathe Project Pulley - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #67 Lathe Project Pulley - Part 3
    Machine Shop Tips #68 Atlas Milling Attachment - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #69 Atlas Milling Attachment - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #70 Atlas Lathe Attachment - Part 3
    Machine Shop Tips #71 Atlas Lathe Taper Turning - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #72 Atlas Lathe Taper Turning - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #73 Turning a Morse Taper - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #74 Turning a Morse Taper - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #75 Measuring Dovetails on the Atlas Lathe
    Machine Shop Tips #76 Milling a Dovetail on the Bridgeport Part 1 of 2
    Machine Shop Tips #77 Cutting a Dovetail on Bridgeport Mill Part 2 of 2
    Machine Shop Tips #78 Aligning Lathe Centers - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #79 Aligning Lathe Centers - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #80 Miller Plasma Cutter tricks - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #81 Miller Plasma Cutter tricks - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #82 Bought a used South Bend Lath
    Machine Shop Tips #83 Custom Power Feed for Atlas Lathe
    Machine Shop Tips #84 Introduction to Identifying Metals
    Machine Shop Tips #85 Identifying Metals - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #86 Identifying Metals - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #87 Identifying Metals - Part 3
    Machine Shop Tips #92 Tramming a Drill Press
    Machine Shop Tips #93 Checking the RPMs on Shop Machines
    Machine Shop Tips #94 Grinding Lathe Centers With Dumore Grinder
    Machine Shop Tips #95 Making a Test Bar - Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #96 Making a Test Bar - Part 2
    Machine Shop Tips #97 Dressing Your Bench Grinder Wheels
    Machine Shop Tips #98 Grinding a Lathe Threading Tool
    Machine Shop Tips #99 Aligning Lathe Centers TEST BAR METHOD
    Machine Shop Tips #100 - Ways to Tap a Hole Straight Part 1
    Machine Shop Tips #101 - Ways to Tap a Hole Straight Part 2
    Foundry Videos: Casting, Coremaking, Foundry and Patternmaking
    FOUNDRY CASTING Making a Sand Mold - Part 1
    FOUNDRY CASTING Making a Sand Mold - Part 2
    FOUNDRY CASTING Molding with a Split Pattern - Part 3
    FOUNDRY WORK Melting & Pouring - Part 4
    FOUNDRY WORK Mold Casting Shakeout - Part 5
    FOUNDRY WORK molding irregular parting line Part 6a
    FOUNDRY WORK casting irregular line parting Part 6b
    FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine - Part 1
    FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine - Part 2
    FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine metal casting - Part 3
    FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine metal casting - Part 4
    FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine metal casting - Part 5
    FOUNDRY PATTERN MAKING Steam Engine cores - Part 6
    Machine Shop Videos
    BRIDGEPORT MILL Tramming or Indicating the Head to Zero
    BRIDGEPORT MILL indicating the vise
    TOOL BIT GRINDING #1 South Bend Atlas Lathe
    TOOL BIT GRINDING #2 South Bend Clausing logan Lathe
    TOOL BIT GRINDING #3 South Bend Clausing logan Lathe
    LATHE TOOL BIT GRINDING #4 South Bend Clausing logan
    THREADING on the CLAUSING LATHE South Bend - Part 1
    THREADING on the CLAUSING LATHE Atlas Logan Part 2
    MORSE TAPERS on Atlas & Clausing Lathes
    South Bend & Atlas LATHE TOOL HOLDERS
    Three Jaw Chucks on Atlas Clausing Hardinge Lathes - Part 1
    Three Jaw Chucks on Logan Clausing Hardinge Lathes - Part 2
    SCREW BACKLASH on Atlas Clausing Lathe
    USING THE EDGEFINDER ON THE BRIDGEPORT MILL
    CUTTING A WOODRUFF KEYWAY on the BRIDGEPORT MILL
    CUTTING A STRAIGHT KEYWAY with BRIDGEPORT MILL
    BROACHING A KEYWAY IN A PULLEY
    TAILSTOCK CENTERS on South Bend Clausing Atlas LATHES
    TAILSTOCK CHUCKS for the Atlas Clausing South Bend Lathes
    TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT on Clausing Atlas South Bend Lathes - Part 1
    TAILSTOCK ALIGNMENT on LOGAN HARDINGE South Bend Lathes - Part 2
    Threading with a Procunier Tapping Head
    Bridgeport Mill part1 Indicating a Hole prior to boring
    PARTS OF THE CLAUSING METAL LATHE
    BORING ON THE BRIDGEPORT MILL - Part 2 Criterion Head
    BORING ON THE BRIDGEPORT MILL - Part 3 Criterion Head
    THE BRIDGEPORT MILL - Part 4 Drilling a Bolt Circle
    Threading Big Holes with an Enco Tapping Head
    The Use and Care of Drill Bits - Part 1
    The Use and Care of Drill Bits- Part 2
    The Use and Care of Drill Bits - Part 3
    SPLICING A LEATHER SOUTH BEND LATHE BELT
    Parts & Operation of the Logan Lathe
    Turning a Taper on the Logan Lathe
    The Use and Care of Reamers - Part 1
    The Use and Care of Reamers - Part 2
    The Use and Care of Reamers - Part 3
    Steam & Stirling Engine Videos
    Solenoid Magnet Motor Like Steam Engine
    Stirling Hot Air Engine - Part 1
    Stirling Hot Air Engine - Part 2
    Steam Engine Locomotive Teaching Aid Demo
    Electro Magnet Motor Mesco Avery Patent
    Robinson Hot Air Engine
    Wobbler Steam Engine Overhead Crank
    Electro Magnet Coil Engine (motor) #3
    Stirling Hot Air Engine runs on Snow
    Double Solenoid Electric Engine Motor
    Over and Under Stirling Engine Hot Air
    Stuart #9 Steam Engine Running w/Governor
    Steam Engine - 2 Cylinder
    Steam Ball Engine Aeolipile Hero of Alexandria
    Stirling Hot Air Engine Water Cooled
    Principles of Stirling Hot Air Engines
    Hit and Miss Gas Engine McCormick-Deering - Part 1
    Solenoid Magnet Engine Electric Motor
    Jensen Model Toy Steam Engine Under Power
    Cretors Model Popcorn Wagon Steam Engine
    Elmer's Engines Steam Model 2 Cyl - Part 1
    Elmer's Engines Steam Ring Gear - Part 2
    Building a Model Steam Engine
    Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 1
    Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 2
    Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 3
    Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 4
    Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 5
    Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 6
    Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 7
    Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 8
    Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 9
    Building a Model Steam Engine - Part 10
    Metal Shaper Model
    Metal Shaper Model - Part 1
    Metal Shaper Model - Part 2
    Metal Shaper Model - Part 3
     
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  8. FOMOGO

    FOMOGO United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Have seen similar before. The angle adjustable center feature seems like it would improve stability. Mike

     
  9. Kernbigo

    Kernbigo United States Active User Active Member

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    I use a ball bearing center in the headstock and this adjustable center in the tailstock
     

    Attached Files:

  10. savarin

    savarin Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Am I correct in thinking that the ball bearing replaces a dead centre but still requires a dog to drive the shaft?
     
  11. Kernbigo

    Kernbigo United States Active User Active Member

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    yes you are write, the ball bearing goes in the headstock end and you use a face plate and a dog to drive it . If you only off set the taper a small amount you can use s pointed center in the headstock end. It works great.
     
  12. Mutt

    Mutt United States Active Member Active Member

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    Can ya expound on how exactly to use your set up? I would like to cut tapers on my Griz 4003, that has no taper attatchment
     
  13. Kernbigo

    Kernbigo United States Active User Active Member

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    The one ball bearing center goes in the headstock if you need to cut a taper that are are kind of drastic, other wise for a mild taper just use s normal center and a face plate and a dog to drive it . The adjustable center is put in the tailstock horizontal, and is adjusted for the taper you want, you do not adjust the tailstock at all.
     
  14. Mutt

    Mutt United States Active Member Active Member

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    is this set up available somewhere?
     
  15. Okapi

    Okapi Switzerland Iron Registered Member

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    Hi,
    It's a very good solution for precise conical turning, with Pythagore tables you can make very accurate angles, a cheap solution is to recycle a boring head made with a cylindrical attachment for a revolver lathe mounted on a Morse taper recycled drill for example, you can found them for less than a half of a Morse taper model, normally it's 18 or 20mm., I suppose you have the same sort of standards diameters in inches.
    Have a nice day.
    Pierre
     
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  16. Kernbigo

    Kernbigo United States Active User Active Member

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    the co. i used to work for had them to adjust the center height on there thread grinders. You can put it in either direction horizontal or vertical depending on what you want it to do. The name marked on it is taper-tail it is a purchased item.
     
  17. Round in circles

    Round in circles United Kingdom Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Mutt, this eBay number 2528171598 is a type of off center line live center.

    Using just your lathe if you don't have a mill , you can make one based on the same principle but so it fits in the tailstock taper

    Does it give you an idea of how you may be able / can make one using :- a purchased new Morse taper , a dead center Morse taper cut & bored at the widest blunt end & a short turned up off center axle with two sealed bearings to join things up ?

    Perhaps it can be locked to the right taper by using graduations that line up & a locking screw in a sleeve or a simple screw thread with lock nuts to lock things rigid once the graduations line up .

    There will be a need to ensure the offset is kept located horizontal to the lathe bed & on center I'd use a cut down big darning needle held in the headstock chuck to align it accurately .
     
  18. Charles Spencer

    Charles Spencer Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I haven't done this yet, but I think I'll proceed like this:

    1. My boring head has a screw thread to attach a straight or R8 shank. I plan to make an MT2 shank and thread it for the boring head.

    2. Make a short shaft to fit in the holes on the boring head. Mill a flat tab on the end and drill a hole through it.

    3. Turn the center and mill two slots with holes to fit over the shaft tab. Screw through them to tighten down at the desired angle.

    4. Round the nose on an MT3 center for the head stock. I don't see the need for a ball bearing as the center will turn with the work.
     
  19. BRIAN

    BRIAN Italy Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    On the Boring head shown in the photograph the centre is fitted in the hole that the boring tool usually fits the swing action allows the tool to be roughly adjusted up to 90°
    most heads now have 3 holes to cover this option.
    Brian.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  20. Charles Spencer

    Charles Spencer Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Actually, I just found an MT2 shank on ebay that will fit my boring head so I just went ahead and ordered it:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/300722736815
     
  21. Tozguy

    Tozguy Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The work will turn with the centre but there will be a slight amount of rocking of the work on the centre.
     

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