Shop-made Snake Gun ?

randyc

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About six years ago, when my kids were back home from college, I was trying to interest my boy in some of the things that have also interested me. Although his interest in firearms has since lapsed, it was still fairly high at the time. During a casual discussion, he recalled how I used to bring a .357 Magnum revolver on our camping trips, loaded with birdshot (i.e. a "snake gun" - we never pointed it at a snake but we did kill a few tin cans, LOL). I mentioned that it was a pain to carry that heavy thing around for such a trivial purpose and he wondered why I didn't build a lighter one - a single action, single shot, hand-held shotgun.

2011-03-04.jpg

Other than the legal issues, it seemed like a good opening for arousing an interest in both mechanical design and metalworking (at the time, he was a Freshman and hadn't declared a major yet). So I tried to use the opportunity to motivate/teach him and we sporadically worked on the project, working through the steps of how products evolve from conception through initial research and planning to design and analysis, finally to manufacturing a prototype.

The original goal was to make a simple, smoothbore .410 hand-held shotgun but that is not legal in California as we found out after some internet research. There are some limitations, among which is the requirement for a rifled barrel with a minimum length. (Oddly, we made a couple of telephone calls to local law enforcement agencies during this period and they weren't able to answer questions regarding the legal issues which leads one to wonder if anyone would ever get cited for making something that didn't meet the strict letter of the law - but that's another story, LOL.)

A much simpler project would have been a black powder smoothbore - completely legal, easy to make and easily loaded with birdshot. That wouldn't have illustrated all of the points that I hoped to make, however and - as we'll learn in a moment - maybe I made the points TOO clearly, ha-ha.

After considering how typical single-action mechanisms function, working through the selection of materials, how to represent the impulse load of the cartridge discharge and other typical problems that come up in the early stages of a design, we came up with a tentative model. The basis is a rifled barrel for a .45 Colt cartridge that can also accommodate a .410 shotshell and along the way, we developed a preliminary stress analysis using a free finite element analysis (FEA) program downloaded from the internet.

Many people regard firearms negatively and that's a matter of opinion with which I have no problem. I'm a country boy, born in New Mexico but grew up in the hills of Northeast Tennessee and had my first rifle on my eleventh birthday - about two years LATER than most of my friends.

After doing my thing in the Army (First Cavalry Division '63-'64 and Fourth Infantry Division '64-'65) I lost interest in this stuff until I discovered trap and skeet and got hooked on over/under shotguns. One thing led to another … my wife and I also started target shooting with handguns and rifles. My son shared our attitudes - he liked to punch holes in paper and break clay targets.

Another characteristic that makes firearms interesting to me and to many others is the mechanical precision and craftsmanship involved in the manufacture of fine firearms (especially side-lock shotguns - my particular fondness). Many people who are interested in firearms are attracted to developing machining skills because of their interest and the converse is equally true. OK, sorry for the diversion - other than just having fun with it, a project that could provide an incentive for my boy to make a decision about his major was useful I thought (he was wavering all over the place at this time).

Maybe this detailed exercise was too much for the boy, LOL - as it turns out, he decided on a journalism major and he's doing OK with it (had a few articles published in his college paper and in a few local newspapers). But he's no longer interested in building the "tin-can gun", as he calls it. I was cleaning out some of my drawing files on the computer tonight and came across our drawing - I thought that it might be of interest here from the aspect of a machining challenge. So here's the drawing and the preliminary stress analysis - for ENTERTAINMENT only - that we came up with:

snakegun.jpg

The stress/deformation analysis was made only for the receiver. I made the assumption that it would be the weakest link in the design.

sidestress.jpg

Note that the "tin-can gun" was never made; it would have been a good project to photo-document because there are a number of challenging operations involved, not only machining but hardening, grinding, stress-relieving and a LOT of hand-fitting of small parts.
 
Take a look back at the old Cobray .45 Colt/.410 pistols, single shot and double barrel. To keep the ATF happy the barrel has to have rifling.
 
Bump on an old thread.

randyc,
I like your narrative.
I'm wondering if you or others have actual prints with enough specifics to actually do a build on a snake gun.
Or, have a source for purchasing prints.
My primary concerns are safe.
I can/will check on the legal with my local PD.

Daryl
MN
 
From what I've been able to find out , you can legally build the gun for yourself. Your not allowed to sell it . If you want to make and sell then your a manufacturer of firearms and there's where the issues come in. They have to be numbered and cataloged you have to keep those records. Send copies to to the state and feds. Sometimes even townships. If there laws are different. That's how you can build those so called ghost guns. Somewhere it's legal to build your own gun as long as you don't. Sell it or make full auto. Pretty soon your going to be able to have silencers again. You can now with a $200.00 donation to the feds. Somebody found a loophole in the constitution that says you have the right to build for you own protection. Don't take my word cause it's only what I read and see.
 
Silverbullet,
Yep, that exactly what I've found out.
Is it safe to build a "snake gun" from raw steel?
Not so many dangerous snakes in Minnesota. However, the wife and I are looking at moving in the next several years and have been warned by the locals at our rural MN destination about the wolves.
It'd be fun to have a sidearm that I built from scratch.
But, safety is critical.

Daryl
MN
 
Silverbullet,
Yep, that exactly what I've found out.
Is it safe to build a "snake gun" from raw steel?
Not so many dangerous snakes in Minnesota. However, the wife and I are looking at moving in the next several years and have been warned by the locals at our rural MN destination about the wolves.
It'd be fun to have a sidearm that I built from scratch.
But, safety is critical.
Daryl
MN
As long as you leave plenty of meat on the sear it will be safe . The trouble comes when they try to hone the sear for a lighter and no creep trigger , go to far and it will go off prematurely . On a gun like that I'd leave the pull at least 5 lb. Plus . Your not planning on double action are you.Make it Like an old single barrel shotgun.
 
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Had to look up a definition for "sear": Sear - A sharp bar, resting in a notch (or in British: "bent") in a hammer (or in British: "tumbler"), holding the hammer back under the tension of the mainspring. When the trigger is pulled, the sear moves out of its notch, releasing the hammer and firing the gun.[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sear_(firearm)

This would be my first. Keeping it simple is important!
Thank you.

Daryl
MN
 
I know I've seen posts about folks who have made their own snake guns. There are also derringer kits (Cobra?) that have 45 colt/.410 barrels that are pretty nice. I bought a Taurus Judge "Public Defender" and have had the unwanted experience of using it on a rattlesnake. Hard to miss and loaded with a .410 with #6 bird shot it definitely did the job.

I'd think you could buy a kit or at least the barrel for the kit and make the rest yourself fairly easily, cheap and safe. I also read some of some being made from black powder kit gun parts. I don't know much about the specific pressures created with a .410 shot shell, so can't guess as far and the barrel/breach steel type, dimensions, tempering etc required to withstand the pressure, but I'm sure there are plenty of folk on the web who do! I do know that the aluminum frame Taurus I have has quite a kick to it so imagine a derringer size gun surely would also.

As for the 410 derringers.. how about a 22/.410 over under? Here's a link to a place that sells the side and breech plates. Not sure where to get the rest of the kit/parts. http://www.theflatspot.net/derringer-22lr-410-overunder-sideplates--breech-face.html
 
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Silverbullet,
Yep, that exactly what I've found out.
Is it safe to build a "snake gun" from raw steel?
Not so many dangerous snakes in Minnesota. However, the wife and I are looking at moving in the next several years and have been warned by the locals at our rural MN destination about the wolves.
It'd be fun to have a sidearm that I built from scratch.
But, safety is critical.

Daryl
MN

Daryl,

Get you a AR for those wolves. That's what we use for coyote and hog control down here.:D
 
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