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Shizouka An-s Build

Discussion in 'MACHINE BUILD LOGS' started by alloy, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Well slight plan change.

    Since the DSMPC was two weeks out I decided to look on Ebay for one. And guess what I found for $900 instead?

    And it's local so I'm going to pick it up tonight and take it out to Jim' place tomorrow.

    Jim said since I found this for such an unbelievable price I should go buy a lotto ticket and quit my job :) New it's $3200!!!


    $_57.JPG
     
  2. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Got the 4080 out to Jim and it seems to work just fine. Has it hooked up to Mach3 and he is jogging it offline.

    I've added some links to parts I've bought hoping they will be helpful and save some money on others projects.

    Have stepper motors ordered for the speed control and the tool changer.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/221424267383?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    My touch screen monitor came in and it looks great. For $135 shipped it was a great deal. Looks brand new not refurbished at all.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/171708856705?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    Got my breakout boards from Winford for half the price of the ones from Galil.
    http://www.winfordeng.com/products/brksd26hd.php They shipped the same day I placed my order.

    My magnetic Renishaw scale tape off Ebay also. I wanted to order from a US supplier but they were well over $100 more for 2 meters of tape.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/331023801182?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    The Renishaw LM10 reader heads came off Ebay for $80 each, but he seems to have pulled his listing. He had them for $100 and I made him and offer on 4 and he accepted it.

    I need to figure out how to attach the monitor to my pendant box. There is a very small (about 1/8" lip) around the outside edge of the monitor and I can enlarge the opening so it fits tightly into the opening, but need to find a way of attaching it with some kind of clamps or something on the back of the monitor to hold it in place.
    Haven't go that figured out just yet.

    20150313_151752.jpg

    20150313_151736.jpg


    monitor.jpg
     
  3. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    panel.jpg Got a little done today. Worked on the power panel. Tomorrow hopefully I'll get the panel with all the motion control stuff done, then comes running all the wiring.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 22, 2015
  4. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Though I'd start a thread on my build in the correct forum.

    I'm not going to repost everything in my other thread, just going to start this from where the other thread left off.

    Got some more work done today. Got the control panel parts mounted on DIN rails. Also got the panel mounted.

    We pulled apart the tool changer. Going to add a stepper motor to run it instead of the huge mess of old electronics that it has. Jim gutted the board out of it, and I got the motor pulled and took apart the drive mechanism. Very interesting the way they did the drive setup. They made a Geneva mechanism and drove it with a gear head motor.

    We are going to do away with the Geneva mechanism and mount the stepper motor directly driving the sprocket. Hope fully this will work out.

    20150321_154754.jpg






    Here is the control cabinet. Got the motion controller, the stepper controllers and all the breakout boards mounted and the power supply for the steppers. Another stepper will be running the speed control We are going to only use one power supply since both steppers will never be running a the same time. Also got the the cabinet hung on the side of the mill.
    20150321_160901.jpg
    20150321_191444.jpg 20150321_154908.jpg
     
  5. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Got more done this weekend. Have pretty much all of the wiring done in the power cabinet. Took a day and a half to get it wired, but it came out petty well.

    20150328_160944.jpg 20150328_163107.jpg
     
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  6. Karl_T

    Karl_T United States Active User Active Member

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    WOW, that 8 axis control looks great.

    If Mach will let you put one axis on the spindle for rigid tapping and gear hobbing using a 4rth axis.

    Also, if Mach will let you, connect an axis to your MPG ( manual pulse generator) or hand wheel for fine jog. If this control has auxiliary encoders, that's an even better place for this.

    This is going to be one kick a$$ machine.

    Karl
     
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  7. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I got very lucky finding the Galil 8 axis. The price was unbelievable. I really don't think the seller knew what they had. They were a wholesale company an sold everything from the control to overalls. I was going with a 6 axis Vital Systems control for about $1200 but they were out of stock. I decided to look on Ebay for a used one and found the Galil. And the Galil was local to me which was amazing in itself.

    We are using an axis for X,Y, and Z, and reserving one for a 4th. And using 2 more axis on the tool changer and speed control. That leaves 2 left for something down the road. I looked at Mach and rigid tapping isn't implemented.

    I did pick up an MPG but I'm not sure exactly how it hooks up. As I've said before, I'm just the muscle on this build, Jim is the brains of the operation. He can answer on how the MPG is hooked up.

    I do think it will be a great machine. There is a lot of work left to get to that point. But when I'm done it will be something I can be proud of.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2015
  8. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    The spindle will be tied to one of the spare axis. The Shizouka has a gear in head that always turns at spindle speed so we're putting two 4mm prox sensors in to read the teeth for position and speed. The two sensors will give the same effect as an A-B encoder for speed and direction. We'll get about 500 PPR resolution.

    The MPG will also be tied to it's own axis, rather than one of the Aux axes. There is an Aux axis for each of the main axis, but two of them will be used for the stepper drives on the tool changer and the spindle speed control. When the MPG is set to an axis, there will be code that will slave the target axis to the MPG axis.

    I'm not sure how Mach3 will handle all of this stuff, it's going to be an interesting setup and learning curve. I'm sure I will be writing a lot of code in the Galil to get it all to work. The tool changer will operate as an independent program in the Galil, I'll just have to wait and see how Mach3 triggers the tool change. I suspect I will be spending some time on the Mach forums.
     
  9. Karl_T

    Karl_T United States Active User Active Member

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    Jim, you likely don't need the help, but I'm an accomplished Galil programmer. Pretty arcane language, not many of us around.

    If you have nine spare inputs, I can give you one fine JOG program.

    I'll be following your work VERY closely.

    Karl
     
  10. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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  11. Karl_T

    Karl_T United States Active User Active Member

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    I'm going to bet you are short on inputs. This MPG is using seven inputs - top bunch. It can be done with four.

    Use two ins for axis:
    1 and 2 off - X
    1 on 2 off - Y
    1 off 2 on Z
    1 and 2 on A
    They make rotary switches to solder up this way.

    use the same idea to get speed ranges. FWIW, I just have coarse and fine on my MPG , that plenty and it only uses one input.
    Now you only used three.

    Jim, If Mach will let you, write the whole MPG thing up in Galil.

    Karl
     
  12. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    I haven't really looked at the MPG yet. Not sure how it's internally wired, I need to sit down with an ohmmeter and play with it a bit.

    You are correct in what you suggest above, that's the same way I designed mine for my mill. I just haven't built it yet. I have the encoder for it sitting here on my desk.

    I'm not sure how Mach3 handles the MPG, I need to do some studying.

    So far, I have only mapped about 38 uncommited I/O points, still have a few left.
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  13. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    A couple of more parts came in today. Got my tach from Automation Direct, and some switch labels.

    The label people are awesome. Ordered them on a Sunday night and got a ship notice at 8 am the next day.

    20150401_195348.jpg 20150401_191718.jpg
     
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  14. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Got some more done. Ran some conduit from the axis motors to the power cabinet, and installed the cable from the Galil to the breakout boards.



    20150418_171620.jpg 20150418_171612.jpg
     
  15. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    A bit more of an update, I snapped a few pictures of what looks like a real mess at this point. Alloy finished the conduit runs and started pulling in the cables to the various I/O points. There will be about 300 connections to make. So far there is about 50 feet of flex conduit and about 100 feet of 8 and 10 conductor control cables installed

    The power panel. This contains the power supplies, drives, circuit protection and control relays. The rectangular opening in the back of the enclosure will contain a filter. The fans in the bottom of the enclosure will blow air in. Most of the cabling is pulled in now.
    IMG_0090.jpg

    The tool changer cabinet. Three 10 conductor cables pulled in. The little black things (center) are small relay modules,, each containing 4 relays, to switch the 120V solenoid valves to operate the tool changer.

    IMG_0092.jpg

    The Z-axis box. Limit switches and Z mag reader in this box, also the manual buttons for the power draw bar will be installed here.

    IMG_0093.jpg

    The power draw bar.

    IMG_0094.jpg

    The control enclosure, the brains of the system. All of the low power control is done from this box. A lot of wires to connect in here.

    IMG_0095.jpg

    The distribution box. There will only be a couple of connections in this box. Mostly it is just cable management just to keep things semi-neat. That is a 2 inch conduit from the control box.

    IMG_0096.jpg


    The operator pendant. This is the next step, we'll pick up the materials to build the support arm this week so we can get it in place. Then pull a few more cables into it.

    IMG_0097.jpg


    More to come later, stay tuned!
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  16. Boswell

    Boswell United States Hobby Machinist since 2010 H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Wow,this is looking great. Only one comment, in one of the pictures you mention that a hole in the back is for a filter and that the fans on the bottom will blow IN. That seems backwards. For the filters to provide value, I would think the are needs to pull thru them so the fans would be setup as exhaust fans with the air inlet being the filters.
     
  17. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    You are correct, actually it was a bad description. The fans will pull in filtered air from the bottom and exhaust it out the back through a screen, rather than an actual filter. The fans will be blowing directly on the servo drives to cool them. We did it that way because we are using an old enclosure I have had on the shelf for years and it already had that opening in it.
     
  18. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Got more done today. Jim cut out the front panel on his mill and I pulled a bunch more wire for the pendant.


    20150501_185718.jpg
     
  19. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    We should have been updating this thread more often, there is quite a bit more work done. Alloy only gets to work on it one or two days a week so progress is a bit slow.

    The operator pendant installed and wired in along with the other needed buttons and knobs for the tool changer and power draw bar.
    IMG_0198.jpg


    Some of the wiring in the tool changer area

    IMG_0201.jpg

    Some of the control panel wiring is complete

    IMG_0202.jpg

    The power cabinet is getting closer to being done

    IMG_0204.jpg

    The stepper drives and power supply for the spindle speed control and tool changer

    IMG_0205.jpg

    I've been working on the tool changer, we decided to drive it with a stepper motor rather than fight with the original Geneva drive. The Fanuc tool changers are not the best thing they ever built, and have lots of problems, so....

    The original TC drive system

    20150321_154754.jpg

    We were going to try to run the TC sprocket directly with a NEMA 34 stepper, but I got cold feet and was afraid it wouldn't have enough torque so we decided to put in a gear box. And spend more of Alloy's money.

    I designed a 16:1, in-line, double reduction gear box that will almost fit in the same footprint as the original system, just have to move a mounting bracket back a half inch. (I'll post the build in another thread) No, I didn't make the gears, I'm much too lazy to do that, good ol' Boston Gear parts.

    IMG_0244.jpg

    IMG_0246.jpg

    Sort of in place, I couldn't rotate it into position because the mounting bracket hasn't been relocated yet.

    IMG_0247.jpg


    In other news, we actually powered some of the controls up today. Had a few of the normal problems, but worked them out quickly, a couple of minor wiring errors, but nothing major and all of the magic smoke stayed in. ! Still have to get the mag scales setup before we power up the motors. And I have a lot of code to write to make all of the knobs and buttons work.

    We weren't able to check any of the I/O because of a problem with the computer, won't boot past the BIOS, I brought it in to my test bench and will torture it into submission. It was working, until we relocated the components to the operator pendent. Probably something minor.

    More later.
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  20. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    20150704_115903.jpg Godzilla lives!!

    ok, not totally alive yet but we have some life in her. I tethered her to my phone just for grins while Jim was in town getting forklift parts.

    I can even surf my favorite web site from the mill.

    Posted from my milling machine :)

    20150704_114845.jpg
     
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  21. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    A little update.

    We reached a major milestone yesterday, the servos are now under computer control. We started with servo drives and motors of unknown condition. Turns out they are fine. Was able to move the table and quill, accurately! :encourage: The Mach3 DRO is actually reading the position correctly! Took a few hours to debug the limit switches, correct a few wiring glitches, and get the motors and encoders all working in the same direction.

    Got the tool changer working, at least going through the motions, it's under computer control also.

    Will continue the checkout today, get the MPG working correctly, and a few other odds & ends.

    The next steps are to install the power draw bar and build the hardware for the spindle speed control and the spindle tach.

    Getting close to complete! Will be making chips soon! Will post some pictures later.
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  22. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    A few more pics.

    Here is the control cabinet. I spent a couple of hours yesterday on it doing wire management.

    rsz_20150801_123912.jpg Here is the Z axis box. On the left you can see the Renishaw reader head and he mag scale tape. We replaced all the old limit switches with new ones.

    rsz_20150725_123315.jpg

    And here is the face plate Jim made for Z axis.
    20150725_160421.jpg
     
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  23. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Well more progress. I have to say Jim is truly amazing. He has the machine running G-code now. Today I got the lube pump back on and working, new cooling fans in the power cabinet, and some work on the Y axis belt setup and motor mount. I actually ran out of work to do today. Means we are getting close to a fully functional machine :)

    Jim found that there is backlash in the X axis ball screw. We are going to see if we can adjust it out.

    The tool changer is indexing accurately now. It looks a lot different than the mess of wiring it had originally.

    We still have to make a mount for the stepper motor for the speed changer, and get the motor mounted and wired up. Also need to get the VFD mounted and wired, get the power draw bar working and under computer control. I just bought a new coolant pump off fleabay tonight. I also needs to be mounted and wired up,and get the spindle brake working. Jim is working on a design for a proximity sensor mount to go in the head so the computer can read spindle speed.

    At least now I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. I don't even know how to start thanking Jim for everything he has done for me.

    20150807_121841.jpg
     
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  24. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    A couple of current pictures. We had the table off today correcting about 0.005 backlash in the X leadscrew, and getting the leadscrew oiler to work. The X-axis drive motor is not re-installed yet.

    The tool changer is working, and the machine runs G-code. Two major milestones. Now if I can just figure out how to get Mach3 to trigger the tool change routine, life will be good. Mach3 and I don't play well together. Next is the spindle tach install, and the auto vari-speed control. Then on to the power drawbar. Once those 3 items are complete, it's ready to make chips!

    IMG_0267.jpg

    IMG_0268.jpg
     
  25. Jastein

    Jastein United States Iron Registered Member

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    Nice job on the tool changer! That is what I would like to do with my Shizuoka, but I need to keep it making parts. I thought about using a PLC to control the TC In a similar fashion. I do not know enougH about the ladder programming however.

    Are you going to retain the ability to do manual tool changes as well as full auto functionality?
    Have you looked any at the M6start macro stuff?

    There is a section on the mach forums for vs macro stuff.

    Jim
     
  26. JimDawson

    JimDawson Global Moderator Staff Member Director

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    Thank you!

    It will do manual tool changes. It can be done by simply stuffing the tool into the spindle and hitting the Tool-In button, or can manually load a tool from the tool changer by switching the TC mode to manual and selecting the tool.

    I would be happy to help you out with the ladder programming. You can pick up a Micro Brick PLC for about $125.

    I need to study the macro section a bit more, I don't fully understand all of the fine points yet. I suspect by the time I get done with this project, I'll have a much better understanding.
     
  27. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Jastine,

    Is your mill an AN-S? If it is do you have any manuals for it?

    We have one on the tool changer but that's it.
     
  28. Jastein

    Jastein United States Iron Registered Member

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    Hi alloy:

    Yes, It is the same machine.

    As I mentioned to JimD. at the Mach forum, I have most of the manuals for the machine with a summit /bandit control. Electrical schematics and mechanicals. Let me know and I can see if I have what you need and scan it.

    Jim S
     
  29. alloy

    alloy Always looking for the next tool score H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Its good to know another AN-S owner.

    Jim has pretty much made his own electrical schematics for the mill, what would be helpful is a copy of the parts manual. I'll gladly pay you for your time and expenses to copy it.

    And since you have the same tool changer I have a number of spare parts we pulled and won't be using. If you need anything or just want spares let me know.
     
  30. Jastein

    Jastein United States Iron Registered Member

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    I just looked over the Shizuoka manual and there are about 10 pages which may be of interest. From the looks of it, you already have been into at least half of them! I will scan later on and post them or email if you like.

    I might be interested in the remnants! Either that or convert mine like you did.

    Cheers, JimS
     

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