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Seig Sx2.7 Milling Machine

Discussion in 'SHERLINE, TAIG, TITAN & SIEG MINI-MACHINES' started by Stephen krupa, Jan 28, 2016.

  1. JamesSX2_7

    JamesSX2_7 Australia Iron Registered Member

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    Hi Scott,

    I'm glad you took the plunge. Also glad you like the mill :eagerness:.

    I presume a GFCI (ground fault current interrupter) is similar to our "earth leakage circuit breaker".
    Mine runs no problem, though it is possible my ELCB doesn't work.
    Maybe there are some electrical differences in the mill (mine is made for 240V, while I guess yours is 110V).

    I did some measurements of my head tramming and it did need adjustment. Mine was out 0.15mm (0.006") in 450mm (18").
    I used some shim brass to true it up. Was going to write it up at some stage.
    It is now down at under 0.002" in 450mm (my dial indicator is imperial).
    Of course, with time and use it may move a little.

    My spindle run out measured 0.1mm (0.004"), but I want to remeasure. It occurs to me that I have no idea how accurate my collet chuck and collets are.
    I'll remeasure directly on the spindle, and with another chuck, and maybe with a MT3 "shaft" (what is such a thing called - an arbor maybe).

    My guard did beep, it also got in the way and made the machine useless.
    Yes, the knob would be preferred, as after switching off you need to reset the speed - can take a while if you are picky about the exact number, as I can be!
    You also have a different colour scheme.

    I do think power feed in the Z axis is warranted too.
    What is backlash on the X and Y handles like?

    James.
     
  2. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    Yes, mine runs on 110v

    I assume you shimmed the column, not the head. Mine is out 0.002" over 9" on the X-axis. I'm not ready to loosen those column bolts just yet!

    I was a little disappointed by the 0.0005" runout at the spindle end, but I'm getting more accurate hole diameters and positioning than I did with the mini-mill, and that's what's important. More concerning is how much the spindle heats up when it runs continuously for 15+ min (not that I'll be doing this often if at all). That suggests that the bearings are not seated properly. There's also a little drag at the top end of the quill feed. Again, I don't have the stomach to take apart the head. That was a reasonable project for me on the mini-mill, but not on this one (yet).

    I tried the power screwdriver on the Z axis but it unscrewed the nut holding the crank when I try to raise the head. I'll give it a drop of loctite and see if that works. The backlash on both the X and Y axes is about 0.003". Not too bad!

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2016
  3. JamesSX2_7

    JamesSX2_7 Australia Iron Registered Member

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    Hi Scot,

    I did shim the column, placing 2x layers or 0.05mm (0.002") of shim under the left side.
    1x layer did nothing. I assume the column contacts elsewhere and the first layer filled the gap.
    My column bolts were not the tightest when the mill was received, so I felt no danger in loosening them.

    I did re-measure the runout on an arbor and on the ER25 chuck taper.
    Both were under 0.001" on my dial indicator, I'll try the more sensitive test indicator when I next get the chance.
    Looks like my collets are way off, or my technique is bad.

    Where do you notice the heat?
    I do (did) run mine for long periods when reducing material with an end mill and never noticed any particular hot areas.
    Do NOTE: the motor is INSIDE the head on this mill, unlike the smaller mills. It will create heat too.
    There is a guide on professionally setting up an SX3 from a British company that includes taking the spindle apart and re-greasing that may help if you get game.

    I'm starting to think a stepper and belt, allowing precise height adjustments may be the go.

    That is for much later though.

    James.
     
  4. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    Hi James,
    I am pretty sure the spindle (not the motor) is heating up more than usual. My mini-mill had the same issue until I replaced the bearings. I've seen that arceurotrade video in which they tune an SX3 -- definitely a great resource should I want to dig in.

    Raising and lowering the head is definitely a chore. That will need to be addressed at some point. In meantime I'm getting some good exercise!

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2016
  5. higgite

    higgite General Manger - Proofreading Dept. Active Member

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    Amen, Scott. It didn't take me long to pull out my cordless drill and find a socket to fit the center nut on the handwheel. I was afraid it would unscrew the nut, but so far, so good. My drill is variable speed, controlled by trigger pressure, and I start slow and build up speed. Maybe that helps not unscrew the nut. But, now that I've bragged on it, I'm sure it will unscrew next time I do it.

    Tom
     
  6. JamesSX2_7

    JamesSX2_7 Australia Iron Registered Member

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    Hi Scott,
    Did finally get some time with my mill.
    After running for quite a while the spindle was a little warm to touch at the base, but not hot.
    I was only doing some light end and side milling so no great pressures were involved.

    My biggest concern with the bearings is the hammering to get the MT3 taper to release.
    I am surprised by how tightly it holds on.

    James.
     
  7. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    My mini-mill had an MT3 spindle taper, and I had the same problem at first. I learned that the drawbar does not need to be tightened so hard to hold the collet/end mill; the taper will do the work for you. It takes a little while to get the feel for how much is enough. You should only need to give the drawbar a light/firm tap to release the collet.

    Scott
     
  8. coherent

    coherent United States Active Member Active Member

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    Kind of off subject now from where this thread had drifted, but one easy way to move a mill to/from a workbench is find or make a rolling cart that is the same height as your workbench. Then, you can lift it onto or off of the cart using a hoist or whatever that's located anywhere. Even outside. Then roll the cart next to the bench and slide it off.
    I have a chain hoist on the ceiling near my garage door opening. Used this method a number of times successfully.
     
  9. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    Thought of doing that, too. In the end it was easy to rent a duct jack to lift the mill up to my bench.
    Scott
     
  10. harrzack

    harrzack United States Harrzack H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'm lusting after this mill! Had long been wishing for the X3, but this appears to be a good compromise.

    Scott - what is the depth (to the wall) of that bench you have the mill on?
     
  11. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    30" deep

    This mill is the perfect size for my needs and available space. It's adequately accurate (within 0.001" when squaring a block) and consistent.
     
  12. harrzack

    harrzack United States Harrzack H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'm not so sure that the X2.7 is in the same class as the classic X2 series. It looks to me more like a lighter version of the X3 - and I fairly certain it will be a def step UP from the LSM 3960. I was lusting after the X3, but when I saw the details of the X2.7 I think it will be a better match (for me) than the X3. Not to mention the version from LMS has no plastic gears, and the BLDC motor is a HUGE improvement over the classic X2's geared, standard DC motor. Study the specs of the X2.7 carefully - I think you WILL be impressed!

    Just wish I could find a copy of the X2.7 users manual so I can get some good external sizes - it may be a squeeze on my current mill table.

    =Alan R.

     
  13. matthew-s

    matthew-s Canada Steel Registered Member

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    There even seems to be an x2.3 now, although I have no idea where you would get one in the US.
     
  14. harrzack

    harrzack United States Harrzack H-M Supporter-Premium

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    A quick look on the Sieg site confirms this:

    http://www.siegind.com/products_detail/productId=173.html

    An X2.3 AND an SX2.3! Looks like the days of the X2 family are numbered...

     
  15. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    I was set on an X3 until I realized it would not fit on my bench with the ceiling in my garage shop. The X2.7 is perfect. It's heavy enough for my needs and more accurate than a X2. Or rather, I can achieve accuracy within my tolerances more easily on this machine than I could with the X2, which required a lot more fuss. The digital readout on the Z-axis has been a big help, too.
     
  16. harrzack

    harrzack United States Harrzack H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Scott - could I ask a favor of a couple measurements of the base? As the manual for this seems to be unavailable thru web searches, in sure other prospective X2.7 owners could use them too.

    My LMS 3960 sits nicely on a 24" X 43" table I made. If you could give the basic "rectangle" dimensions of the base as well as how far the Y axis handle sticks out past the base - this would give the min front-to-back space needed to bench the mill.

    Thanks!

    Alan R.
     
  17. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    Here you go:

    The cast iron "blue rectangle" base is 16.125" deep and 9" wide.
    The column extends beyond the back of the cast iron base by 3.5". The column does not rest on the "ground" and does not need to be supported.
    The y-axis handle extends 4.5" from the front of the base.

    The attached sketch is embarrassingly rough. And I forgot to include the 9" width measurement. :-/

    Sounds like your table should work!

    Scott
     

    Attached Files:

  18. harrzack

    harrzack United States Harrzack H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Wow! Thanks a ton for the info AND the good news for my table.

    By the way, I show the progress of the building of these tables on my website http://www.avrdev.net.



     
  19. harrzack

    harrzack United States Harrzack H-M Supporter-Premium

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    IMG_0433.PNG

    Here is a version I hacked together on the iPad
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2017
  20. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    Definitely nicer than mine. Let us know if (when) you purchase the machine. :)
    Scott
     
  21. ben_r_

    ben_r_ United States Iron Registered Member

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    Anyone looked into converting the LMS 5500 to CNC?
     
  22. Metrology

    Metrology United States Swarf Registered Member

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    The LMS 5500 has a belt drive, so it has that going for it.
     
  23. harrzack

    harrzack United States Harrzack H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I was lusting for the X3 for a long time, but when I read the specs of the SX2.7 was quite impressed. Please don't be fooled by the "2" in the name of this mill. It is more of a cut-down X3 than a beefed up X2. The size is better for my shop (second floor apt). Read the specs on the LMS 5500, (AKS Sx2.7) and you'll quickly see it a small mill - NOT a "mini-mill".

    Almost had a buyer for my X2 w/DRO but jerk never showed up! I could almost taste that 2.7.... defeat snatched from the jaws of success.
     
  24. harrzack

    harrzack United States Harrzack H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Scott - per your request, am happy to say my LMS 5500 is ON THE WAY! My LMS 3960 found a good home and helped finance the new machine.
    I'm having it delivered to a company that has a fork-lift and avoided the lift-gate fee. It should arrive in NJ around the end of the month. Will provide pix and notes of the install.

     
  25. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    Congratulations! Please do post pics as you set it up.
    Scott
     
  26. harrzack

    harrzack United States Harrzack H-M Supporter-Premium

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    This reply is coming a bit late - but the 5500 is HERE! What a sweet machine after the SX2. Even the wrenches have a better fit. Once I get it basically together I'll post pix of the setup - and on my website.

    Somewhere I saw mention of running the bearings in at various speeds for 10 mins each. For the life of me I can find those numbers... And the 7 pages "documentation" in the "Parts list/user manual" says little. I'm quite surprised that a mill of this quality and from LMS - doesn't supply an adequate user manual. I know Frank Hoose has a wonder tour and of the mill - but even a 5 part video is no replacement for a GOOD user manual. Otherwise - VERY happy camper!
     
  27. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    Congratulations! I think you'll find this a capable machine, especially after living with an X2.

    The user manual is surprisingly incomplete. F. Hoose's videos were helpful in this regard. As for running in the bearings, I read about this in the documentation for mills sold by Grizzly. I copied this from the G704 manual:

    To perform spindle break-in process: 1. Successfully complete Test Run procedure beginning on Page 20. 2. Open the Emergency Stop button cover and press the green button to start the spindle. 3. With the speed range selector knob in the "L" (low) position, turn mill/drill ON and run the spindle at 600 RPM for a minimum of 10 minutes in each direction of rotation. 4. Turn the mill/drill OFF. 5. With the speed range selector knob in the "H" (high) position, turn mill/drill ON and run spindle at 1000 RPM for 5 minutes in each direction of rotation. 6. Repeat Step 5 at 2000 RPM. 7. Turn the mill/drill OFF. Congratulations! The spindle break-in is complete.

    I noticed the spindle bearings in my machine warmed up a fair amount at first, but this has subsided over time.

    Scott
     
  28. salindroth

    salindroth United States Steel Registered Member

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    Not aware of this, but it seems like a good candidate.
    Scott
     
  29. harrzack

    harrzack United States Harrzack H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Have gotten the 5500 bolted to the table and working on getting used to it. I notice the center marker on the table is at the left and and not on center - is this an "oops" or is there some good reason for the offset.

    BTW - I also sent LMS a grumpy email complaining about the crappy users guide/Parts List!
     

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