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Robertson No4

Discussion in 'HORIZONTAL SAWS & BANDSAWS' started by buffcleb, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    Just picked this up today...


    any idea how old it is? any manuals around for them (a quick google search didn't yield anything)... it has a 8x8 inch capacity and built in coolant system.

    We put it in my yukon with a forklift... to get it out I'm to partially disassemble as I don't have a forklift of my own. I'm thinking of mounting it on a dolly so I can move it around... probably weighs 400 pounds give or take...

    the previous owner had two other powered hacksaws... he was looking to make room in his shop...

    I have a photo of the serial number tag but am waiting for that one to be approved so I can post it...



     
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  2. francist

    francist Canada Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    There's a bit of info at vintagemachinery.org

    Looks like 1912 - 1945 is the date range, I'm guessing yours is towards the 1945 end of that scale just judging by the castings.

    -frank


    image.png
     
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  3. ch2co

    ch2co United States Grumpy Old Man H-M Supporter-Premium

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    What a beautiful old beast! Keep the pictures coming.
     
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  4. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    thank you... I saw the images on that site but looked again and saw this http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2800/4900.pdf

    which tells me one of the things I needed to know... mainly where the oil goes :)

    this one was a 3/4 hp motor... old but seeing as they came with 1/2 hp probably not original... other then that it looks really nice... no broken parts or welds... without the motor it weighs 465 according to the pdf... so well over 500 pounds probably with it... and about 50 pounds of grime :) no wonder my yukon is squating a bit...

    will do... it's snowing today so its staying in the truck... I have some time tomorrow morning to start taking things apart so I can get it into the shop... at 500 pounds there's no way to lift it out otherwise...
     
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  5. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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  6. Silverbullet

    Silverbullet Active Member Active Member

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    Great find , they never well hardly ever breakdown. Seems like the blades are getting cheaper too. I bought a full box of 14" awhile back and there cheaper on some of the eBay sites . Are you doing a complete renovation . If so we love pictures.
    Hey welcome to the best machinist site. Sometimes we even have fun. Thanks we love old iron.
     
  7. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    thanks.... first things first... I need to get it out of my yukon... when I called the guy on it he said it probably weighed 300 pounds... this was not even close... my guess is 600 with the motor... I spent today removing the motor, vise, saw, arm the saw rides on, flywheel and shroud... tomorrow I'm heading to my cabin where I have a tractor with forks... I'm going to transfer it to a trailer and bring the rest back... I'm planning on mounting wheels on it to make it mobile...

    I'm planning to de-grease it and check things out and get it working... I'd rather leave the remainder original paint... I like the look of a machine that shows it's history... I might end up painting the base as it shows some rust... the rest of the machine is just greasy... I'll be sure to post photos here along with videos on my youtube channel, http://youtube.com/buffcleb
     
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  8. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    So I partially stripped it down in the back of my yukon and drove down to our cabin when our tractor has a set of forks and transfer it to a trailer... drove back home and started the process of degreasing


    Disassembled most of the upper half and started putting it back together... I cleaned the hydraulic lift pump and still have to do the coolant pump.


    One thing that is missing is the clutch actuator parts that kicks in at the end of a cycle to stop the blade... If anyone has photos of this I'd love to see them

    Here's the clutch


    and a mystery part that I think used to be part of the actuator system...


    Not bad for the first day...


    more to come... I'll get some detailed photos of the two pumps once I get them both cleaned up... hoping to have it up and running in a week or so..
     
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  9. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    Still chugging along... I mounted wheels last night so its movable... I'll start adding the heavy bits back on tonight and clean the coolant pump... for now here's the first video I posted to my channel... just getting it out of the back of my yukon...

     
  10. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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  11. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    So 3/8 steel for the rear wheels is proving to be insufficient for the weight as a start putting things back on... I have about 1/4 of deflection... I'm going to swing by the steel shop on the way home and get another 3/8 piece and double them up in the rear...

    I did a video that I just posted of the cleanup... I keep telling myself that grease and grime are better than rust... but so far I've gone through two rolls of blue paper towels, two small brass brushes, several old tooth brushes, a couple of gallons of kerosene and about half a spray bottle of simple green... pretty sure this was not cleaned at anytime in the last 80 years...

    I'll have a video of the two pumps sometime this week... I have a switch coming so I can turn it off and on without plugging an unplugging it... It should be running by the end of the week...

     
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  12. scwhite

    scwhite United States Active Member Active Member

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    That's a good heavy saw
     
  13. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    thanks... it's probably around 700 pounds... I ended up doubling up the 3/8 steel on the rear of the unit for the wheels as it was a bit bouncy... now it's very stable... I have more of the machine put back together and should finish it this weekend... I also cleaned out the coolant sump... took about two gallons of crap out of it... I'm going to spray it down with kerosene tomorrow to finish up the cleanout... I should have another video tomorrow on saturday...
     
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  14. scwhite

    scwhite United States Active Member Active Member

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    Cool
    I just bought a new G4030 horizontal bandsaw
    From Grizzly
    But I like what you got there
     
  15. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    that looks awesome... big machine... I was going back and forth between something like this and a smaller bandsaw... this seemed cooler... and I'm in no rush...
     
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  16. scwhite

    scwhite United States Active Member Active Member

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    Yes that is way more cooler
    I would have bought that in a heart bet if I had found it .
    I needed a saw pretty bad so I bought a new Grizzly G4030
    I like my new saw don't get me wrong
     

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    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017 at 10:37 AM
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  17. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    got the machine running today... here's the first video of the two pumps



    and here's the first cuts... the first one was a little rough... then I tightened things further much smoother... I need to adjust the lift on the back stroke... getting and 1/2 inch right now... should be 1/8...

     
  18. scwhite

    scwhite United States Active Member Active Member

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    That saw is cool it will last 100 years longer.
    I have a question is there any way to move the vice
    Out to the other end of the saw blade so you can
    Get full use out of both halfs of the blade .
     
  19. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    not really... you could build a vice to do so... it just bolts in place...

    that's a 2.5 inch piece and the capacity is 8 inches... which would use more of the blade... I'm going to make some rocket stoves out of 6x6 which will use more of the blade...
     
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  20. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    Oh.. you can also use shorter blades... I think I can go down to 12... I have a 17 inch blade on there now... so with the shorter blade you'd again use more of the blade up...
     
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  21. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    So I have a question about blades... I'll make a separate post if people don't see this...

    Is there a rule of thumb for how many teeth should be engaged at the same time? I order some 10 tpi blades as thats what's installed already... but if I was cutting a 2x8 block of steel there would be 80 teeth engaged... vs a 2x2 which would have 20... I'm assuming there's a formula for what should work and what shouldn't... right...
     
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  22. scwhite

    scwhite United States Active Member Active Member

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    You should have at least three teeth engaged in the work . This keeps the blade cutting on thin angle and
    Tubing so the thinner the metal the more teeth you are going to need on the blade .
    Thick stock can take a coarser pitch blade .
    The trick is in the feed rate .
    Set the feed and Surfice feet per min. Of the blade to where you are curling the chips .
     

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    Last edited: Apr 24, 2017 at 7:38 PM
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  23. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    thanks...
     
  24. GK1918

    GK1918 United States Active User Active Member

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    My No 4 is a 1914 way older than yours original flat belt except a newer 110 Vt. motor. I can't figure out
    where the oil pump picks up oil. There had to be some kind of oil reservoir somewhere? no signs of
    tapped holes for it either. The cycle stop is a simple pawl that kicks off the clutch. Seems I see you are
    cutting on the back stroke mine cuts on the forward stroke?? sam 112-1262_IMG.JPG 112-1262_IMG.JPG
     
  25. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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    Yes mine is cutting on the back stroke... lifts on the forward stroke...

    are you talking about picking up oil for the lift pump or coolant pump? the lift pump sits in the reservoir... on your the silver thing the pump is in... just fill it up with the hydo fluid... the coolant pump on mine is plumbed to the base which acts as a reservoir... I removed several gallons of sludge from mine to clean it out...

    I did a video just on the pumps and once I re-install the coolant pump I'll do another showing them both in action... my coolant pump draws from a nipple at the bottom of the pump...



    If you could I would love to see some detailed photos of the parts used to disengage the clutch... I have the pawl on the saw and this part


    but everything else is missing


    except for the clutch parts

     
  26. buffcleb

    buffcleb United States Steel Registered Member

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