Ready to purchase a lathe

I would probably recommend a single phase input 240V 5Hp drive as a first choice for several reasons. First they are available and they are less expensive than something like a 10Hp 3 phase input VFD drive like a Hitachi WJ200-075LF. This is the most likely the size you would need for a 3 Phase input drive that is derated for single phase use. The usual derating factor is to take the VFD output and divide by ~1.7, you can use a DC choke and maybe get this down to 1.5, but the total cost will be even more. The other predominate factor is that even though you are using the VFD in a derated mode for single phase input, the power input side to the VFD has to be rated for the full VFD rating, so 10Hp, or 7.5KW. Game changer when you get into the wiring fusing and breaker needed to support this size of a VFD.

My first recommendation would be a Yaskawa drive, they are a highly rated drive and used widely in many industrial machines. Almost every factory 3-5Hp single phase input VFD lathe or mill comes with a Yaskawa drive. It is also the least expensive. I would buy it from an authorized dealer so you have support and a warranty. Yaskawa, CIMR-VUBA0018FAA, 5HP, 1-Phase, 200-240V (Input), NEMA 1 Enclosure, Variable Frequency Drive, 4.2KW, 17.5A
https://motorsandcontrol.com/yaskaw...ut-nema-1-enclosure-variable-frequency-drive/

The Polyspede line has been replaced, the spedestar is not UL approved for what it is worth. The Polyspede equivalent in a newer model is the Invertek Drives
The VFD drive is the E3 model ODE-3-320153-1042 INput:240VAC, Single Phase Output: 5 HP, 240VAC, Three Phase 4kW, 15.3A
https://www.driveswarehouse.com/ode-3-320153-1042
http://www.invertekdrives.com/variable-speed-drives/optidrive-e3/

I have purchased drives from both of the above vendors, I would call them and ask them what they recommend for your application. I have a Yaskawa drive in my mill, the Hitachi on my lathe, up to 3Hp with single phase input, I would recommend either. Invertek Drives are somewhat new, I have no experience with them, but speak to Drives Warehouse. I would go with the Yaskawa, CIMR-VUBA0018FAA as it is more widely supported and more widely used. I also believe this is what Eisen uses in the VFD variable speed lathes/mills

All these VFDs take a bit of work to get programmed and dialed in, the manuals can be a bit daunting. The other factor is you need to know how to wire the VFD into the machine controls, I strongly do not advise connecting the VFD inputs directly to the spindle switch for the direction controls, there are just too many things that can happen on a lathe with severe consequences. It is possible to strip out the high voltage wiring to the forawrd and reverse contactors and use them to switch the forward/reverse VFD inputs. All the other controls will work the same, the motor is directly connected to the VFD. I also like to add a few other safety features. The other component is that your machine comes with a manual brake, so if used you need to switch out the current brake limit switch for a dual pole, one side is wired as before (usually a NC that goes open when the brake is applied), the other pole you use a NO contact and is wired to a VFD input that gives the freewheel command (no electronic braking when the manual foot brake is engaged). It is not a simple drop in job. You could also go with an RPC which may be less expensive and much simpler to install.
 
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Eisen does use the Yaskawa for there variable speed model. I just couldn t find any reviews and the fact polyspede is an American company gets a few more votes. I value and respect your opinion mksj. I should look more into Yaskawa as they are a Japanese company and like you say most factory vfd driven lathes are Yaskawa.
Yes vfd can be daunting. Kinda scary at this stage for me. I ve realized I need to educate myself not only with the obvious but I started to study the terminology that i have been coming across the many manuals I have been reading. It is getting better And I need to have a better understanding of electrical terms and abbreviations to make sense of it all. That is my main area of study now. I am planning on having a crafty electrician friend of mine hold my hand through the vfd Install.
I have to admit I have always shyed away from Electricty and even cnc for that matter. Paying for it now having been stubborn about it when I was working in a screw machine shop. I like mechanical things I can see. Electricty is wizardry Almost to me. In todays world you have to dive in or your left behind like I am. Am I getting that old where technology is passing me? Maybe? Posting pics is a classic example of my train of thought. Real busy and thought I needed a host for pics and look how easy it is. I better get my head out of the dark ages and be more open to the possibilities and not be set in stone with my thinking.
Just a thought any of you out in the Golden Horshoe area of Ontario from Toronto to say Orillia. If so how about getting together for a coffee. Just a thought. I am heading that way tomorrow and will be there for a week.
 
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I think I found my drive. Thankyou MKSJ! After looking over the Yaskawa manual and the fact Eisen already use this series of vfd seals the deal for me. I did look for the Yaskawa previously but never found a single to three phase for 5hp. Now I can concentrate on one manual.
I know I am an odd duck and I am sure some head shaking going on in this thread. Been that way all my life. I appreciate all your thoughts and time spent trying to help me.
If I am allowed I plan to start a thread about my journey getting back into machining. I know it s a hobby forum and think of it like this. If your not making your living at it and going about it in a garage in a manner I am realizing it s going to be a good while before i will make any respectable income. It s more about getting a full rounded shop for the next few years and making my own fixtures and what tooling I can. I have four years to get set up.
 
I fly airplanes for a living but have been teaching myself machining over the last year so I would approach your initial question from a very basic but time tested standpoint. Part of the preamble of my Starrett book says to buy the best tools that you can afford. I have Taiwanese machines and they are more robust than Chinese. When I bought I too was looking "long term". I want my machines to last. I bought bigger than I needed, full featured machines that I can grow into rather than having to replace down the line. Once I got comfortable (and I am not there yet) with a machine I didn't want to have to replace it. Just my 2 cents. Good luck and keep in touch. I'm in Hamilton. Cheers.


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Looking forward to your posts. I'm an i.t. Manager pushing a desk who likes his job but whose brain comes alive when working on vintage machinery

I love to learn and am not afraid to try

Last nights journey was learning how to wire my 7.5 hp 3ph motor from an auction. Pulled the elect cover off and stared at 9 grey wires unmarked and unnumbered .

Hit up google and YouTube and learned about wye vs delta 3ph wiring and how to identify the wiring using a battery and analog meter

Fascinating stuff!


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Good that you have the VFD worked out, but if you are not familiar with electricity/wiring and programming of the VFD I would strongly recommend having an electrician work with you on the install. As I mentioned previously, if the contactors have not been used, then you can remove the high voltage wiring to the forward and reverse contactors and use one set of the contacts to switch the forward (S1) and reverse (S2) low voltage inputs on the VFD. The lathe will operate the same as if it was connected to 3 phase, and you will have speed control. You can wire the front jog switch so it directly operates a low voltage jog (S7) input on the VFD. Normally what I recommend is replacing the machine E-Stop with a lighted (24V) version, so you connect the current machine power indicator light to the E-Stop light. You then put your speed pot in the 22mm hole that was previously the power on light hole. The E-Stop would have two Normally Closed (NC) contact blocks, one side is wired the same as the current E-Stop which interrupts power to the contactors/power relay. The second NC contact block interrupts the VFD signal voltage (SC) used for the VFD inputs.

Some of this is similar to some previous threads posted below which are for a basic PM 1340GT and 1440GT VFD conversion without building a completely new control system. You will need an external braking resistor for the VFD, the VFD can stop the lathe in a controlled fast fashion, but if you have too much momentum (mass X speed) you can exceed the electronic braking ability of the VFD if trying to stop it to quickly. This will result in and over voltage error and the VFD will freewheel to a stop, this can be dangerous.

The PM 1440GT is very similar to your lathe, I have attached a document which outlines the concept of the wiring changes discussed above, but this applies to the Hitachi WJ200. If you use any diodes for the VFD input logic, you must reconfigure the VFD for Source logic for the inputs, this is controlled by DIP switch S3 on the V1000. You can use this as a starting point, as each lathe (even the same model) wiring may be different, this is provided only as general information as to the concept and suggestions. You must take all responsibility for how you would integrate this with your lathe and all electrical/safety code requirements. When I build these type of control systems, I use 2 -3 redundant safety systems, and interlocks, so for example if say a spindle switch fails closed, the E-Stop will still stop the machine.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/vfd-enclosurers-wiring-schematics-and-components.55739/
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...g-the-stock-control-board-and-switches.49022/
 

Attachments

  • PM1440GT Basic Wiring Changes for useing a the Contactors to switch the VFD inputs.pdf
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Kd I think that is great how your going about things. Work through it until you figure it out. What a smoking deal on that motor.
Mksj thank you. Not just for the information you have given me but all the reading and studying I have done that has come from you. I sincerely and am for ever greatful what you have done for all of us. In this day and age it is awesome how you care and truly put a great effort to enable us to advance our knowledge.
I really want to have the manual brake vs. The dynamic breaking of the vfd. Many years having used it for say production work or other times where a manual break is more than just a safety feature. Other than powering the lathe on initial startup I want to have the soft start feature from the get go for the lathes longevity.
Yes I feel the same. I am not there yet. One day I hope to have the knowledge and the confidence. For me at this stage of the game I don t care how slow and long it takes to make progression. I won t take shortcuts or skim on safety to accomplish things. I just have to make sure its forward and not put my self in a position where it would put me back. I hope to be ready on my own when it s time for my first mill. Knowing they are a little easier when it comes to vfd. For now my milling will be done on the lathe. Well what I can anyways. I think with some fixtures and such there are some things you can do on a lathe like drill some deep deep holes you may not be able to on a mill. Struggle with the lathe for awhile and come up with some ideas I may never see if I went to a mill right away.
 
Good Morning, I'll try not to write a novel today. Can't believe how caught up in it I get and off on a ramble. Pretty much set on the 1340gt and ponder a thought that I may throw out there if I may.
The pm1236 is such a value at 2/3rds the cost of a pm1340gt with a dro. Almost as capable. It does come with a lot of stuff but most would need to be replaced but it can be done over time and understand it may need some tuning and has been proven with this setup. With 3 phase and vfd which can be done at a very reasonable cost. It would be a nice little runner I think. Don't need a vector motor with 18 speeds. It saves quite a bit which I can help gather tooling and such or put it towards a machine down the rd.
This is more like Devil's Advocate here. Pretty set on the 1340gt I thought I 'd put the thought out there for kicks and giggles.


I bought a PM1440 with similar thoughts to yours regarding the VFD and 3ph motor. I've had it for a year and a half atleast, and I have never really needed that much control of speed. I've done dozens of precision projects with it and a few dozen more hack projects and with the foot break, and the motor bump button I can change speeds with the gear box awfully darn fast.

I'm a big fan of VFDs and 3Phase motors. I've got 4 cnc mills in operation with VFDs controlling 3 phase spindles and they are awesome, but for manual turning on my lathe I've found it might be nice, but I really don't miss it. I step on the foot brake, change the lever and throw the go lever back and forth. Its almost automatic now. I've got more VFDs, motors, and spindles in boxes for future projects.

As to quality. I can't speak for the other size machines, but I have been very happy with my PM machine. The tail stock is a few thousandths high, but I've been told that is to be expected. There is a spring pin in the tail stock cam lock that is too short, and will break off if you use a lot of repeated high lever pressure. I replaced mine with a longer spring pin and had no further issues. Other than that I have not noticed any real issues with the machine. Oh, yeah, and Matt sent me a free part to help me out with something I broke recently. Didn't even charge for shipping.
 
Hello again! Hope allis well in everyones world!
Well finally getting to the point of being able to run the lathe. After reading and reading and reading more manuals about vfd s Imhave decided on Mksj s recomendation of the Yawaska cimr - vuba0018fa single to three phase 5hp vfd and decided on the enhanced keypad and won t be getting a potentionometer after the discussion with the tech from State Motors and Control Solutions. Imhave spoken toma few other companies but feel theynwere top shelf and made me feel like a customer. I bought a few things to get going but still need my M. Level and some way oil as the machine is still in it s shipping coating other than what I needed to clean to move the carriage and tailstock to balance the machine to get it in the garage. One more week. Waiting for my drive and probably just going to go with the starret 98. Level for now and just use the test bar to setup for now. Man it s been a journey.
 
I think if you have never setup a VFD before then buy one from Drives Warehouse. I called them once with an issue, and one of them called me back from home after hours and helped walk me through a tricky setup.
 
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