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Quill/Spindle Assembly Removal

Discussion in 'WELLS-INDEX CORP.' started by Flyrod, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    Hi All - to have Index convert the taper on my Index 40 from a BS9 to R8, I need to send them the entire quill/spindle assembly

    I have seen a parts diagram, but that does not really provide instructions as to what to do to remove it on a step by step basis

    I have searched this forum without success

    If anyone knows of a thread I might have overlooked, or something on the internet or youtube that is instructive, I would greatly appreciate a steer

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
  2. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'm sure there is not much difference between the model 40 and my 645 as to how to get the quill out.
    The quill will drop out from the bottom of the head. I'll get back with you in a bit.

    I'm back!.

    I've attached a cut away of the spindle assy for a model 40. I assume you have this. I took it from another poster, "Middle of the Road" from another thread.

    The handwheel feed on front of the quill housing has to come off. Now, when you remove it, the spindle assy may drop down to bottom out in the housing. So you may want to block it up, so it does not drop. Be sure to lower the spindle down about midways. Once the handwheel assy is removed, you will see a shaft with a coarse looking thread on it with a worm gear at the top end of this shaft. This has to come out. Not sure if it's mounting. Looks like some kind of threaded stud in the bottom of the screw that has to be removed first. Looks like this threaded shaft has to be unthreaded from the nut that is mounted to the spindle quill. Once removed, then the nut can be removed. After the nut is removed from the spindle, then the quill can be dropped out to the bottom of the spindle housing. There you have it. May have to use a rubber mallet or dead blow hammer to drive the quill assembly out. Be sure to remove the draw bar and nut on top of the spindle before pushing the quill out.

    Ken
     

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    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
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  3. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    thx Ken

    back in shop next week...will have a go at it...
     
  4. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    if not already in the downloads, index sent me this...
     

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  5. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    so took a swing at it...and missed

    did have a chance to talk to WI today

    as you mention Ken, the key to the whole operation is removing the brass nut that the lead screw goes through

    apparently that nut goes into the quill about 1/8 of an inch and supports it - once removed, the entire quill drops (with the spindle inside it) - the nut is attached to the quill with two allen cap screws

    the nut has 2 holes that line up with 2 holes in the lead screw (that goes through the nut from top to bottom)

    step one, according to WI is the removal of those 2 screws - the idea is to thread quill to a spot where the 2 screws line up with 2 holes in the lead screw that allow you to unscrew them

    i am stuck on this step - no matter how i tweak it, the screws do not line up exactly with the holes and start to bind (WI's instructions if this were to happen is to stop and rejigger position)

    any one have a tip or trick as to how to achieve this?

    thanks!

    pics here: https://goo.gl/photos/hZFXZ9pFQhShive5A
     
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  6. dlane

    dlane Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Pics here are better,
    I for one don't need any more
    probs With these DA things
    step one, according to WI is the removal of those 2 screws - the idea is to thread quill to a spot where the 2 screws line up with 2 holes in the lead screw that allow you to unscrew them
     
  7. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    Dlane - exactly

    And after an hour of playing around I could not get them ton line up without binding occurring as the screws entered the lead screw

    I am looking for a tip or trick I might be missing in order to get those to lineup

    For example if there were some way to have the lead screw loose or with some play in it where I could use my fingers to line it up precisely that would work

    I don't know if that's possible or if there is some other way to create play in the lead screw

    That is the kind of advice I'm looking for

    Thanks

    Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
     
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  8. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I'm posting your pictures here so others that can't access them can see them.

    So you're telling us that there are holes going thru the lead screw that give you access to the screws on the other side of the nut???
     

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  9. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    Exactly!

    according Rick at Wells Index ("WI"), there are versions that have only one hole/screw and versions like mine (c. 1949) that have 2 - the purpose is just as you can imagine... to get the quill out without taking apart the entire head assembly

    getting the screws out is supposed to be the easy part...but of course, i am stuck there, right out of the gate

    once the screws are out, that brass nut supposedly goes into the quill about an eighth of an inch - i might be stating the obvious, but it is this brass nut being spun on the lead screw that raises and lowers the quill by the nut being attached to the quill

    the harder part, once the screws are out, is to move that brass nut forward the 1/8th inch - that is because the lead screw is fixed (on the top...the screw at the bottom does not screw into the lead screw ... the backlash in the lead screw causes it to bottom out in one direction and raise up a revolution and a half (or so) to take it up the other way - that screw can screw into the area at the bottom of the lead screw so there is less play) - so the part i thought i was going to be asking you guys about was how to get 1/8" of play in the lead screw

    i think to loosen the lead screw it requires loosening the 4 hex head cap screws that fix that entire assembly to the head...but i am not sure ...so if anyone has advice there...much appreciated

    complicating things, my mill has the option for the automatic downfeed of the quill...so i don't know if that gets in the way of loosening the top of the lead screw assembly

    of course, if there is an easier / better way to do this, i am all ears

    bottom line, i am trying to get the quill assembly out of the mill

    thanks!
     
  10. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    You have a tough one there. Concentrate on one screw at a time in removing them. As much as I hate to say, may have to drill them out. See if the screws are tapped with a small thread in the head of the screw like a 8-32 or 10-32 thread. That would accept a piece of all thread to aid in pulling the screw out. If not, drill and tap a small thread in the head of the screw to aid in pulling the screw out.

    Edit, May also drill out the hole in the lead screw a little bigger to give the screw more clearance for getting it out. Try a small magnet too.
     
  11. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    thanks...very hesitant to start drilling into the machine

    the screws are allen cap screws

    the issue is not the screws per se...they screw in and screw out

    the issue is alignment - i cannot get the hole in the lead screw to line up exactly right - so, as i back out the nut screws, it interferes with the lead screw and gets stuck

    LI said not to press that b/c it can strip the threads in the quill (big pita)

    i am thinking i need to take the head apart a bit to free up the lead screw at the top?

    there are four allen cap screws that hold on the wheel assembly with the worm gear that drives the lead screw

    there are 4 allen cap screws on the left side that hold on the auto feed assembly

    not sure exactly what to do...
     
  12. brino

    brino Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hi Flyrod,

    Just throwing out ideas........

    1) Can you clean the holes where the heads of the socket head cap screw are? Maybe a better view would help.
    Are the heads binding because there is a burr where the nut rides over the holes, if so maybe it can be cleaned up with a file.
    Perhaps it is not the heads binding on the holes. Could the ends of the threads on the other side be damaged?

    2) It's not clear from the drawings, is it possible that these items:
    ScreenShot117.jpg

    at the bottom of the screw are used to force it up and remove end-play?
    If so then loosening/removing them might give you some slack.

    -brino
     
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  13. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    At this point, you have nothing to loose, go easy, don't force anything. It should come off okay. At least it'll open up another avenue to go down on the disassembly.
     
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  14. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    ok...it came off - basically the threads are not long enough on though screws to come all the way out, but they should have entered into the lead screw - to get around that, i took of the 4 bolts on the front of the head assembly and the 4 on the side that attach the auto downfeed (the two assemblies are perpendicular to each other and the end of the wheel shaft terminates in a gear in side the auto feed - here are a few 20170702_151054.jpg 20170702_174636.jpg 20170702_174648.jpg pictures:
     
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  15. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    by the way...is this how the top of the spindle should look?

    20170702_184125.jpg
     
  16. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    That is crazy how Index did this! Glad you got it apart!

    Thanks for sharing.
     
  17. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Ohhhh, No.

    Someone has beaten on the drawbar one time too many. I assume that is the drawbar.
     
  18. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    it is the part of the spindle at the very top, with threads underneath it (haven't used the mill (or any mill) yet)
     
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  19. brino

    brino Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Only if someone's been beating on it with a big hammer.
    Wow, that's fugly!

    Sure you can grind off the "flowered" end to clean it up, but can you adjust for the lost length?

    -brino
     
  20. 4gsr

    4gsr Global Moderator Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    That's what's left to the end of the drawbar, not the spindle. Oh boy! The fun has just started.

    Look at the assembly drawing you posted above.
     
  21. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    hi guys - circling back - index has re-ground the spindle to be r8 - head unit dissassembled, cleaned up and reassembled - i started the machine for the first time a few days ago to find that the wiring is not correct and one of the drive pulleys flew off...so issues there (subject of an other thread I will start shortly) - here are some pictures

    thanks
     

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    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
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  22. Flyrod

    Flyrod United States Active Member Active Member

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    those are mostly before...here are after:
     

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