PM25 Owners

Thanks, Bill... what I suspected, but having not used one thought it better to ask and be sure. Back to my research and a decision.

One last question, since I'll have to learn how to set one of these up on my own. Any input as to whether either would be simpler than the other for a newbie to set up, maintain, and learn on?


They are basically the same design, with some different features. The PM has a tilt head for fancy work and a quill, albeit a short-throw one. The PM also has tapered gibbs which IMO are easier to adjust properly than the ones on the LMS.

The PM has a built-in RPM display. That's extra on the LMS. I would say that they are about the same level of quality, which is pretty decent for a import mill. You still need to clean off the packing grease and do some basic setup, but there are a lot of people here to help with that.

If you have the room, I suggest the PM, only because if you get started into metal working, it's a little better size-wise for some basic DIY projects. It's a lot more mill for not that much more money.

Let us know what you decide! :)

Bill
 
Will do, and thanks for letting me hijack your thread!
 
New member chiming in here. I've been machining and making small engines for about 2 1/2 years and the PM25 was the first thing I bought. A very nice machine and ran with virtually no issues. Matt is very helpful and I wish more vendors were like him.
The two issues I had with the mill are easily fixed. The two-bolt (one pivot, one locking) system for the tilting head is, IMHO, not a good design. Search the web for the 3 bolt mod on the BF25, or even the Grizzly G0704 (same Weiss design, identical to the PM20). Huge difference.
Some folks, myself included, were replacing motor brushes every few months. Not confined to PM machines; Griz and BF 20/25 owners also. Not a big deal nor a big expense and Matt sent me spares. I think it has to do with the "quality control" of the brush spring. Takes about 2 minutes to replace.
Finally, with reasonable care, the PM stuff holds a pretty good chunk of value on the used market. I couldn't resist the Bridgeport so the PM went to a new home.
 
Yea, the three bolt mod is already on my 'to do' list for this machine. I also ordered a couple of 36t stainless spur gears (thanks Hossmachine) to eliminate the plastic intermediate gear and will get some angular contact bearings for the spindle as the gear change will get the spindle RPM to ~4.5k. I may eventually make a belt drive conversion if I want >5k spindle RPM.

I have worked on a Sharp (BP clone) at my friend's shop and like it a lot, but one of those monsters won't fit in my little shop so this will have to do.

Enjoy your Big Iron. :)

Bill
 
Only you know your precise circumstances but as pointed out by Starlight_Tools in another thread a full-sized machine really doesn't take up a bunch more space than your PM25.
 
Only you know your precise circumstances but as pointed out by Starlight_Tools in another thread a full-sized machine really doesn't take up a bunch more space than your PM25.

My friends 9x48 takes considerably more 'working' space than my little PM25. Height, width, and depth wise. That and it requires 220 three-phase or an inverter. I'm also certain that I cannot move it by myself and wonder if the garage floor would support it. I don't have 220 and don't want to pay to have it wired, and I don't want to have to pay a rigger every time I have to move (which unfortunately, I have done way too much). And honestly, I don't have the space for it. I'd have to give up other tools just to put a machine in my garage that I wouldn't fully utilize.

Also, I live in CO where good used machines appear to be few and far between. So I'd have to buy from somebody somewhere else, sight unseen (I can't just take off work a fly somewhere every time I see a machine advertised for sale somewhere), and hope that it isn't a worn out POS that will cost thousands to have scraped and rebuilt. I'm not interested in rebuilding a worn out machine, thanks. Fairly certain I can't get a BP clone, new, for what I paid for my PM. :)

And really, not to belabor the point, but I have no need for a full-sized machine. Seriously. I do pistolsmithing and some little projects like the Bonelle TCG (I decided against the Quorn) that I will get started on this year. I also want to get more serious about clock making which requires small, fairly precise parts. Don't need a full-sized machine to do any of this.

I appreciate you sentiment, seriously. I honestly believe that if I had a 20x20 shop that had the available power, and I needed that much machine, I'd figure out how to get it.

I'm just a tinkerer who needs some small machines to play with. :allgood:

Bill
 
Thanks again for all of your help, Bill. I'm leaning towards a larger machine than a minimill. Two questions - what made you choose a PM vs a comparable grizzly (g0704??)? Also, did you consider the 3960's true big brother, the sx3? If so, why did you opt for the model you chose?
 
The PM25 was a hundred bucks more, shipped, than the G0704. The PM comes with upgraded KB electronics and according to Matt, goes through a different/better build line than some others. Can't personally vouch for the latter, but the fit and finish on this machine is pretty darn good. Pretty damn accurate too (you still have to clean all the packing grease off everything). While trying to decide which machine to get, Matt put up with all my email and phone questions and I found him a pleasure to chat with. He was very interested in my little SB 8k lathe, as I guess he is a SB dealer but has never see the little guy. Asked a bunch of questions about it and said he may get one to "check it out".

And finally, I'm pretty sure I can count on Matt to help out any way he can if something does go wrong. This counts Really Big in my book. :)

I mentioned before that the machine I really wanted was the PM30MV-L with the bigger table, more mass, and more horsepower. But...I was worried that trying to put a 500 lb. machine on a Craftsman toolbox lower, even one rated to 1000 lbs, might be pushing it a bit. For my smaller 300 lb. mill, I've put a piece of 3/4" plywood on top of the tool box and am adding a piece of 3/8" thick steel plate between the mill and the plywood. Probably overkill for a little mill/drill, but that's just me. I'm an engineer, who tends to err on the side of caution, especially in areas outside my area of expertise. So shoot me... ;)

The final straw was that I was worried that I couldn't drag the PM30MV-L which is a 600+ lb. pallet up a fairly steep driveway (4' increase in a 15' driveway or thereabouts). If that happened, I'd have to leave it sitting on the sidewalk until I could get some tools and take it apart and carry the pieces into the garage. In the cold and snow. Wasn't interested in that scenario...

So basically I chickened out and got the 25. :whiteflag:

While waiting on the Santa/UPS backup, I've already done the tramming and three-bolt mods to the head and have installed two of the three mounting plates for my glass scales. The more time I spend playing with this machine, the more I think I did OK and won't be losing much if any capability for the size stuff I work on.

EDIT: Sorry, missed the question about the SX3. If I'm correct, that's the one on the Griz site with the 6x21 table and the Z-axis knob on the front of the base? If I'm thinking of the right one, I did look at it but discounted it because of not enough travel in Y and it doesn't have tapered gibs. That and the base and column looked more robust in the pics of the 25 vs. the SX3. But, I was just going by pictures. I could be completely off base on that one.

Bill
 
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Thanks, Bill. After a lot more reading and research, I'll be deciding btw the PM20 and 25 this weekend and planning to order Monday. Going to spend the weekend reorging my shop and making a final decision on what (if anything) needs to go to make room. Am sure I'll have some questions and need some assistance once it arrives.
Henry
 
May I suggest a call Matt first to make sure he has the machine you want in stock? When I ordered mine, he still had quite a few in stock but you never know.

When you order, I'd be curious to know which one you get and why. Just to be nosy of course. ;)

As for help and setup, maybe we should start a new thread when you get your machine? And I'll be more than happy to help in any way I can. :)

Not sure if you have any tooling, but if not, you may want to start thinking about this and putting together a list. Getting the machine is just the tip of the iceberg in this hobby we call home shop machining.

Bill
 
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