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Pm1440gs not running, advise needed

Discussion in 'PRECISION-MATTHEWS' started by richl, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    20170730_135931.jpg I have gone thru all the troubleshooting tips in the manual
    All switches have been checked and rechecked
    Where I am at now is motor control lever, the manual says to refer to schematic section 5 in the manual. This brought me to the back of the machine where I spent some time checking things, resetting breaker and such. Nothing seems to be helping.

    I do see something I am unsure of the wire unconnected in front is number 15, the other end is hooked up. Anyone can confirm this being hooked up?
    Wire #15 is in the top left corner below the orange 4 strip terminal. It goes into the switch 2nd to the right on top

    Rich
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  2. Hozzie

    Hozzie United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I can look at mine later when I get home. I briefly ran mine with no issues for about 1 min. I plan to run at all speeds to break in, just haven't checked everything I want to before doing that.

    Also, did you check the brake to make sure something isn't amiss.
     
  3. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    Checked brake, Chuck cover, I see mention of a gear cover switch, I can't find that one. I appears to get power, dro works (it runs 220 before the transformer, and the led light works, that is after the transformer. This is why I question the wire.

    Thanks, any help appreciated.

    Rich
     
  4. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The belt cover switch is shown in the picture below, it is a push button. Also check the brake switch shown it must be in the closed position (pushed up on the roller and the switch closed). Check that the E-Stop is not pushed, twist and release, also check that the chuck guard is completely down. There are 4 interlocks, E-Stop, chuck guard, belt cover and foot brake. It is not uncommon to have one of these switch fail or not be adjusted properly as to their travel (on/off position).

    The schematics (see page 30 of the manual) are often not representative as to the actual wiring with respect to location (where the switch actually is wired into the circuit) and labeling.

    If the work light is working, then you are getting power to the transformer and QF1 is OK.

    When the machined is turned and the spindle direction lever is in the stop position, check that the KA contactor is on. If not then check the interlocks.

    If the above checks out, then try the coolant pump. Per the schematic it is after the interlocks, but before the contactor overloads. You should also be able to hear the contactor click. If this doesn't work (or coolant pump does not turn on), then most likely one of the interlock switches is not working correctly. You can check voltage (24VAC) to each one sequentially.

    With the spindle control lever in the STOP position, check the JOG. If rotation then you have an issue with the spindle switch. If no rotation, check to see if KM1 contactor is closing when you press the button. If the contactor closes, then it is most likely a dead motor. If no contactor activity, and you have checked voltage through the interlocks, then it could be an issue with the thermal overload relay.

    You can also check voltages per the schematic, just be careful where you are poking, as there is a mix of 24VAC fro the control circuit and 240VAC on the high voltage. First see if the contactors are closing, then see if you are getting 240VAC to the contactor (L1 and L2)
    Footbrake and belt cove interlocks.jpg

    Wire to terminal #15 should be connected to N (or one side of the hot), that you have power to the light, this indicated the transformer is powered (240 VAC to terminals 14 and 15).
    schematic.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
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  5. Hozzie

    Hozzie United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Rich,

    Wire 15 is hooked up between the first and second 24v blocks. It is in the first slot in the back of both blocks on mine.

    Picture with line shows where. This is the red wire in back I am talking about.

    [​IMG]

    I am headed out again, but if you need more info, I will respond tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
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  6. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    20170730_181850.jpg 20170730_181947.jpg Thanks Mark and hozzie. The dro and the led light work.
    There is no push button switch on my machine for the cover as per my picture, this is why I was wondering where it might be.

    Hozzie my #15 wire is dangling, you can see the other end of the hook up just above, while this may not be the solution, I believe it has something to do with the problem.
     
  7. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    By marks diagram above my #15 wire goes into Fri just below the reset button as per my picture.

    As for the pulley cover switch, is this a new mod, or am I missing another element (switch, wire and hookup)?

    I appreciate the troubleshooting tips mark, I did have a good look at the schematic for this part of the circuit, I do not believe the pump is working, though I do hear the relay for it when I turn the switch on the control panel on.

    Rich
     
  8. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    OK, yes you are correct. Since it seems that the manual wiring is numbered differently, I would verify the connection end with someone with a recent machine. The schematic in my experience is not representative of the actual wiring, so a bit frustrating. Wire #15 is connected at one end to the overload relay, it looks like the other end is connected to A1 of KM2 with a jumper to A1 of KM1. I would verify this with another machine or Matt before making the connection. Pretty sure that is the problem, especially when they stack wires and the spades are not seated properly, they can loosen. I always double and triple check my connections with my control system builds.
     
  9. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    I'll wait for pm to answer my support request, I appreciate the response. I have a clearer picture of what I'm dealing with right now anyway.

    Rich
     
  10. qualitymachinetools

    qualitymachinetools United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hi Rich, Let me know if you still need help with that, or if you have it figured out. Let me know where the other end of that disconnected wire goes, I can't make it out in the picture.
     
  11. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    I'm as baffled as ever. I plugged the #15 wire into what Mark has labeled km2. Just where hozzie shows his . Lathe powers up, but only reverse, no forward.
    Pump for coolant seems to be working now
     
  12. qualitymachinetools

    qualitymachinetools United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hey Rich, I am 99% sure that I know where to tell you to put it, but I want to make sure that I am 100% first. I will have them double check in the morning, and then email you where to connect that wire.
     
  13. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Check and see if there is a jumper between KM2 A1 and KM1 A1, most likely this also became disconnected at KM2 A1. This would explain why only reverse working. Per Matt, as to follow-up.
    Mark
     
  14. dlane

    dlane Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I think ied tighten all the connections in the cabinet, once you figure out where the wire goes.
     
  15. Hozzie

    Hozzie United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Did you get it going? Hopefully it was just a wire out of place.
     
  16. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    It's back to nothing again. Not sure what to do, my hours and pm's are different.

    Decided to delete some of this post, I am a tad bit frustrated right now, luck of the draw, my machine has a couple kinks to it... things like this happen.
    Be thankful, you got a running machine... right now I am big time down in the dumps over this...

    Rich
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  17. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    Most recent update, I called pm, talked with Matt, looks like the physical forward switch is broken, when I pulled the motor control switches out of the motor control shaft, parts of the forward switch fell down into the chip pan.

    I sent a blurry picture from my cell phone off to pm... hopefully this resolves everything and my stress level decreases. People from jersey should not be allowed to talk to Midwesterners lol. They don't understand the dry wit.

    Oh well
    Hopefully will be running the lathe by next weekend.

    Rich
     
  18. MarkM

    MarkM Canada Active Member Active Member

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    Good luck Rich. Hope you get it running soon.
     
  19. qualitymachinetools

    qualitymachinetools United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Yes new switch will be there tomorrow, you will be all set for the weekend.
     
  20. navav2002

    navav2002 United States Iron Registered Member

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    Did you get it going?? I hope the switch fixed it for you. I can only imagine how I would feel in your shoes...Hope you get her going and have some fun!!
     
  21. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    Thanks nava and others for your concern and support, much appreciated. The machine is up and running since 7am thos morning. Yea, there was a moment or 2 there.

    Rich
     
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  22. SSage

    SSage United States Active Member Active Member

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    Good deal. Its a shame it started out with an issue. I can imagine its a challenge for Precision Mathews to keep up with all the debugging on these complicated machines that come a long way from the other side of the world. At least they had the part in stock!
     
  23. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    Bummer, after about 20 minutes of light cutting on some crs 2" round stock, I heard a little pop. The machine coasted to a stop about 5 minutes or less later.
    I was not using the feed direction, not sure what is going on. This switch physically breaks apart. I can not imagine what could cause something like this. Over load from one of the relays. This is only 24volts this part of the circuit. Defective switching? The reverse switch is fine... any guesses?

    The transformer should be handling any fluctuations in ac, if there is any. Brand new feed , circuit breakers... what gives?

    Rich
     
  24. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    Probably does not matter but the wires inside have all stayed put this time.
    Wonder if I should just source a better switch? Anyone else having any problems with there machine?
     
  25. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    20170805_165153.jpg This is a picture of the switch in question, any ideas, I am going to run the machine in reverse, maybe that will blow the other one, does not make sense that the one is always blowing up
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  26. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    2 things I am going to try, check the wire harness for this part of the circuit, I am thinking maybe a broken, exposed wire is shorting out this part of the cirsuit. And, I don't need reverse, I might just reverse the 2 switches lol

    Rich
     
  27. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    Lead time for that part from China is about 3-4 weeks based on an internet search for that part #...
     
  28. navav2002

    navav2002 United States Iron Registered Member

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    I wonder if you could get a better quality switch from McMaster Carr? Their service is usually pretty awesome...

    I looked up roller switches but not really sure what the specs would be (not an electronics wiz)...It looks like a "snap" roller switch to me but I'm really not an expert.
     
  29. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hi Rich,

    Can you describe what is physically happening to the switch when you say it breaks apart? There is usually a cam which pushes on the roller to activate the switch, if the travel of the switch roller arm is exceeded, it can break the switch as there is a very narrow operating range. The cam my be set incorrectly, machined incorrectly (or shaft bent) or the mounting holes for the switch may have been drilled wrong. This particular model LXW5-11G2 of short arm hinged limit switch is very common, so there are other equivalents. I have attached the spec sheet for this model, and some links to the Omron Short Hinge Roller Lever equivalent would appear to be the OMRON Z-15GW22-B (standard model) or Z-15EW22-B (high capacity).
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/OMRON-Z-15GW22-B7-K-Swch-15A-SPDT-Shrt-Hinge-Roller-Lever-/331336922210
    http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyZ-15GW22
    http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=0virtualkey0virtualkeyZ-15EW22-B
     

    Attached Files:

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  30. richl

    richl United States Active User Active Member

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    There is a possibility there is a physical mounting situation. A piece of the plastic casing gets thrown off. I have a couple pics of the pieces. I tried to glue the first one together, but I think something electrical is happening inside you can not hear or feel the micro switch when you engage it. Not sure if there is any possibility for adjustment with the switches to the cam.
    I am thinking about running a new 4 wire harness just to see if that helps, i ran the machine in reverse for over 30 minutes, stopping, restarting, footbrake, handle, emergency button. Wanted to check for an overheating situation... don't think so.
    If the harness has no effect, I might just get a couple new switches than reverse the position of them, I prefer the forward to be in the up position anyway.

    Thanks for the suggestions, it helps, and makes me keep positive about this whole thing.

    Rich
     

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