I am trying to decide whether to get the 949tv that is completely made in Taiwan, or the 950tv that has a Taiwan head and China made frame and is also outfitted with a dro,work lamp and power feed. Is it worth the extra 1k not including a dro and power feed to have the Taiwan made frame? Decisions decisions!
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PM 949 or 950?
- Thread starter Sdmf5150
- Start date
I made this same decision recently. I went with the 949 ts 3-phase for $5,839.00 which is actually $160 cheaper than the 950 and added a Fuji VFD for $228.00 which put me at only $68 more for the 949 and still gave me a variable speed machine.
Of course that is still without the DRO and Powerfeed, but you can easily add those later, but you can not change the base machine quite so easily.
I went ahead and added the upgraded DRO and powerfeed off the bat.
I can say that my first impressions of the 949 are VERY positive, of course I have never seen a 950 so I cannot make a comparison.
Just my thought proccess please take it for what it is worth, and since I am pretty much a noob don't put too much faith in my opinion.
I cannot tell you you exactly how it worked out since I just got the mill to the house last night, but hopefully will know soon.
Of course that is still without the DRO and Powerfeed, but you can easily add those later, but you can not change the base machine quite so easily.
I went ahead and added the upgraded DRO and powerfeed off the bat.
I can say that my first impressions of the 949 are VERY positive, of course I have never seen a 950 so I cannot make a comparison.
Just my thought proccess please take it for what it is worth, and since I am pretty much a noob don't put too much faith in my opinion.
I cannot tell you you exactly how it worked out since I just got the mill to the house last night, but hopefully will know soon.
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I have a PM 932M and it's a very good machine and is serving me well, however it is made in China and you can tell...For example: drilling a hole in the casting in order to mount something is an experience!! The metal is "dust" which is pretty weird....The fit and finish is a tad bit on the crude side and there is a lot of bondo used on the body...I'm getting some hairline cracking and chipping in various places...No big deal just something I've noticed, I could easily touch it up and has nothing to do with function...
Overall I like my Chinese PM 932M a lot, it has done everything I've asked it too do. It's what I could afford.
However my next machine will be 100% Taiwan...
Just my .02...
Overall I like my Chinese PM 932M a lot, it has done everything I've asked it too do. It's what I could afford.
However my next machine will be 100% Taiwan...
Just my .02...
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I was face with the same decision last year. Seeing that this machine would be a life time investment I opted to go for the 949TS (3Ph with a Hitachi VFD) as it is 100% made in Taiwan. and a Hitachi VFD. I never saw a 950 but I am very pleased with my 949, the fit and finish on it is very very nice! I did get powerfeeds and a DRO for it but opted to install them myself to save some cash, which went into some tooling.
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That's normal for cast iron, fine "powdery" chips, not helical like steel.
As for the OP's dilemma: I have a Taiwanese (made in 1987) mill and think it's awesome, not a hint of crappy anywhere on it. Easily, as good as a Bridgeport.
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Thanks for the input guys. Yeah I was really concerned about the quality of the castings. I'll probably go with the 949. Not being able to see the machines in person makes the decision tougher....
Not that the 950 isn't a great machine, I guess it's just a piece of mind thing
Not that the 950 isn't a great machine, I guess it's just a piece of mind thing
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Wrestled with this a while back. After talking to Matt and finding out the iron used is a different/better grade on the Taiwanese machine it became a no-brainer. I could add/upgrade accessories later, but I couldn't upgrade the main pieces like the base, knee, table, or the head later without basically replacing the machine, so I decided to get the best I could afford and upgrade as money became available.
In hindsight I'm very glad with the decisions I made.
In hindsight I'm very glad with the decisions I made.
If I had to make this decision today, I would go with 949. I have my doubts that castings are made in Taiwan. Casting quality is very important, but they (and probably the machining as well) are outsourced from China. How would you know the difference?
5 years ago I bought a 949 PM mill, which, I was told by Matt, was made in Taiwan. Only recently I have found a piece of old newspaper inside the ram internal cavity. Whoever assembled this machine left that piece inside. My Chinese co-worker easily identified the paper as being Chinese with 100% certainty. It even had a proper date and name of the Chinese province on it. So now I know that Matt lied to me. By the way Chinese do not remove the casting sand from the castings - this may be one way to tell...
As much as casting and machining quality is important, the assembly beats them all. Bad assembly culture destroys the benefits of having good design and good parts. If the pin does not go in the hole, take a bigger hammer and drive it in. If the screw does not go all the way in the hole, cut it off - it must be too long. You never check the machine functions after you put it together, after all you not paid to do that. These are just a few examples of poor assembly habits and I have seen way more than that.
I am not sure if 949 mill from "Taiwan" today is any better that my 5 year old "Taiwan" mill. You may only find this out upon complete dis-assembly and inspection of every part. I did just that and I know I would never buy this machine again given a choice. For this kind of money there are plenty of good quality used industrial machines you can buy. At the very least these machines have a proper design and were made to serve the industry and not just fool those stupid American customers. You think you are not qualified enough to take such a huge risk to buy a used machine without any warranty? I know, I've been in the same boat. Please do not be afraid!
5 years ago I bought a 949 PM mill, which, I was told by Matt, was made in Taiwan. Only recently I have found a piece of old newspaper inside the ram internal cavity. Whoever assembled this machine left that piece inside. My Chinese co-worker easily identified the paper as being Chinese with 100% certainty. It even had a proper date and name of the Chinese province on it. So now I know that Matt lied to me. By the way Chinese do not remove the casting sand from the castings - this may be one way to tell...
As much as casting and machining quality is important, the assembly beats them all. Bad assembly culture destroys the benefits of having good design and good parts. If the pin does not go in the hole, take a bigger hammer and drive it in. If the screw does not go all the way in the hole, cut it off - it must be too long. You never check the machine functions after you put it together, after all you not paid to do that. These are just a few examples of poor assembly habits and I have seen way more than that.
I am not sure if 949 mill from "Taiwan" today is any better that my 5 year old "Taiwan" mill. You may only find this out upon complete dis-assembly and inspection of every part. I did just that and I know I would never buy this machine again given a choice. For this kind of money there are plenty of good quality used industrial machines you can buy. At the very least these machines have a proper design and were made to serve the industry and not just fool those stupid American customers. You think you are not qualified enough to take such a huge risk to buy a used machine without any warranty? I know, I've been in the same boat. Please do not be afraid!
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I'm one of those "stupid American customers" who bought a PM935 from Matt a little over a year ago. I also have one of his Taiwan lathes, the 1340GT. Does that make me double stupid? Hardly.
No sand in the base casting, nor anywhere else. Quality on this machine is very good, as is the quality of the lathe.
You want to come on a public forum and call someone a liar, you should back this up with documented proof. Otherwise, can it. I personally don't know you, so therefore your word holds no weight with me one way or another, nor I suspect with anyone else who has two or more functioning neurons to rub together.
I'm not defending Matt, as he's a big boy and can defend himself. If you have a beef with him, go to his business and do it face-to-face. You're close enough. Or take legal action.
And FYI, you might want to check the forum rules about personally attacking someone here.
No sand in the base casting, nor anywhere else. Quality on this machine is very good, as is the quality of the lathe.
You want to come on a public forum and call someone a liar, you should back this up with documented proof. Otherwise, can it. I personally don't know you, so therefore your word holds no weight with me one way or another, nor I suspect with anyone else who has two or more functioning neurons to rub together.
I'm not defending Matt, as he's a big boy and can defend himself.
If you have a beef with him, go to his business and do it face-to-face. You're close enough. Or take legal action.And FYI, you might want to check the forum rules about personally attacking someone here.
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There could be several plausible reasons for the presence of the newspaper other than the casting was made in China. Could have been recycled packing material or maybe the paper of a Chinese person working in Taiwan. Even if was made in China, the Taiwanese manufacturer could have been misrepresenting the "pedigree" of their product to their customers. I have no issue with your sharing your story for what it is. However, I think it's wrong to accuse someone of lying when you don't have any solid proof that they lied.