1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. PLEASE: Read the FORUM RULES BEFORE registering!

    Dismiss Notice

Pm-932 Cnc Conversion Build

Discussion in 'PRECISION-MATTHEWS' started by techbuilder, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Shop_1.jpg
    Hi everybody.

    I thought I would start the Journey of my build based on the recommendation from TomS.

    I've listed some of the parts I have down below and a list of what I need to finish the build.

    Parts Purchased:
    2x 1600 oz Stepper motors for the X and Y axis
    2x 60v 350 watt power supply for the steppers
    3x KL-8070D Digital Bipolar Stepper Motor Driver-32 bit DSP Based
    1x SmoothStepper CNC Motion Controller
    3x 6061 Aluminum for the motor mounts

    Parts Needed:
    1x Nema 42 4200 oz Stepper motor for the Z axis
    2x DQ2722MA 220V power supply/stepper controller if needed for the Z axis if the KL-8070D doesn't work
    3x RM2005 Ballscrews with dual ball nut.
    3x Double Diaphragm Coupler

    If there's anything I'm missing please feel free to let me know.
     

    Attached Files:

    Subwayrocket likes this.
  2. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    928
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Awesome, another PM932 build.

    Additional items:

    Breakout board (BoB) to interface between the smooth stepper, steppers and computer. (I highly recommend the PMDX products. I have the PMDX-126 BoB & Ethernet Smooth Stepper)

    Enclosure for your electronics.

    Cables & connectors for the stepper motors.

    A/C bearings or BK/BF bearing blocks for the ball screws.

    Are you free hanging the Z-axis ball screw or supporting the lower end? (additional hardware required if supporting)

    Do you want the computer to start and stop the spindle? (May require a relay if your BoB does not have one to use.)

    Are you doing a one-shot oiler system? (Requires one-shot oil pump, fittings, tubing, a manifold and prepping the machine for it.)

    At some point you will want to improve the way covers. The stock ones don't seem to hold up and collect chips. Okay for manual machining but not CNC.


    We're not that far apart so if you need a hand with something or want to take a look at my setup let me know, I'd be glad to help.
     
  3. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Redding
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    With your list and jbolt's list you should have everything you need to build your machine. You will also need a computer, motion control software (Mach3 or 4, or Linux), a CAD program, and a CAM program. When it comes to CAD/CAM there is a lot to choose from. Prices start at "free" and get into the thousands. For info I use eMachineShop (free) for simple 2D and 2.5D drawings and Fusion 360 (free) for 3D, modeling and complex parts. For CAM I use CamBam. Fusion 360 also has built in CAM.

    Good luck with your build. Remember, we are here to help you work through your project.

    Tom S.
     
  4. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    I'll check out that breakout board, I have an older one I forgot to include but it's certainly outdated.

    That one is checked off as well, I'm using an old atx case that I stripped and made it into a control panel (well started to lol)

    Still figuring out which ones to use have any recommendations?

    Haven't figured those out yet which ones did you use for yours?

    I'll be supporting the lower end with a gas spring to prevent loss of steps during boring operations.

    Yep, so I'll be including an SSR.

    Yes, I definitely want to, that's an area I have to research more into.

    I saw the way you did it on your build thread and I will definitely be changing mine. It's already an issue with the vice I have so I can't wait to pull those off.

    Thank you very much, I really appreciate it!
     
  5. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    The computer is checked off and I currently have Mach 3 since I've had a cnc router in the past.

    For the power supply for the Z axis 4200oz stepper motor which should I use in order to use my KL-8070D 80VDC/7A Digital Stepper Driver?
    Or will I have to get a completely new stepper driver for the z-axis?

    Thank you guys for the help so far I really appreciate it!:)
     
  6. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Redding
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    I did a quick search on eBay and you can get a stand alone power supply for about $35. There are more than 800 PS listed so you will have to sort through to find the one that fits your needs. Or you can go with a DQ2722M from Wantai Motor. About $165 for a combo driver/power supply. That's what I have but then again I didn't have a usable driver sitting on the shelf. Here's the link http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Cut-Nem...449292?hash=item1e766685cc:g:4qkAAOxyoeBSCfPs

    Tom S.
     
  7. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    What's the voltage and wattage I would need if you don't mind me asking for the power supply?
     
  8. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    928
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    This is the cable I use. https://www.mcmaster.com/#8082k83/=15c7cjv

    I originally used some inexpensive 18-4 shielded cable off ebay but the outer sheathing didn't stand up to the flood coolant so I switched to a more appropriate cable.

    For panel connectors I am using 16mm aviation plugs like these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/5pcs-Aviati...528592?hash=item281c2eea90:g:k5oAAOSwyDxXhSXO

    I used the BK/BF bearing blocks. They need a little TLC out of the box to make sure the bearing cap retaining screws are long enough and the A/C bearing are usually installed wrong. My build thread has info on how to get them setup properly and adjust the bearing pre-load.

    Where are you putting the gas spring?

    Since you had a CNC router I'm assuming you have home/limit switched figured in?
     
  9. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Sweet thank you so much! I'm going to order them today.

    I'll be attaching them to the head similar to this method used
    http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/motor-for-pm-45-hand-crank.10056/

    Yes
     
  10. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    928
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Just for clarification, I used (1) BK15 & (1) BF15 on the X-axis (both ends supported). (1) BK15 on the Y-axis (far end not supported). (1) FK15 on the Z-axis. The lower end of the z-axis ball screw was machined for a 15mm ID bearing and the bottom of the screw is supported by a 15MM ID thrust bearing. I was not comfortable hanging the head by the end of the ball screw.

    I did not use struts on the head. With the 4200 in.oz stepper there has never been an issue with missing steps even with aggressive drilling or Z moves.
     
  11. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    928
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Tom,

    Are you still using the DQ860MA drivers on the X&Y? I've blown diodes off the bottom of both of the ones I started with. I switched to the KL-11080 combo driver/power supply similar to the DQ2722MA. So far I have not been able to blow those up....yet.:cautious:
     
  12. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Redding
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Still have the DQ860MA drivers and no problems at all. It's a guess but I would look at your dip switch settings to make sure they are set correctly for your motors.

    Tom S.

    Edit: here's a pic of my settings.

    DSCF1801.JPG
     
  13. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Redding
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    The DQ2272 is rated at 8.0A peak current, 7.0A rated current. The stepper motor is rated at 8.0A and 5.36 volts. I like the driver/PS package. Make installation easier.

    Tom S.
     
  14. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Looks like a power supply capable of handling the Nema 42 would be the same cost and in some cases more than the cost of the driver board with the power supply so I'm just going to go with the KL-2283.

    http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers/kl-22083

    I'll use my extra stepper controller for a 4th axis in the future.
     
    TomS likes this.
  15. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Hi Folks!
    Long time no update due to funds and a change of plans. I got my bonus from work so it's time to purchase the rest of the parts I need for the conversion.
    Looking at @TomS and @jbolt build logs it appears they're both using different sized ball screws.

    TomS if I recall you're using
    2005 on the Z axis
    and 1605 on the X & Y axis

    Jbolt
    I recall is using 2005 on all axis
    but would have swapped out to a 2505 for the Z axis.

    Since I already have the 1600oz steppers for the X and the Y and will be ordering the stepper (4200oz) for the Z axis should I go with all 2005 for all axis or should I go with 1605 or 2005 for the X and Y axis and 2505 for the Z?

    Also I know this will differ but what were the rough or exact lengths for each axis when you ordered?

    Any information is highly appreciated :)
     
  16. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    928
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    If I were to do it again it would be 2005 on the X & Y and 2505 on the Z.

    Attached is the specification sheet I sent to Chai. I would use double ball nuts vs the two single nuts on each axis.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks for the quick reply and the information Jbolt!
    I will get the 2005 for the X&Y and the 2505 for the Z.

    Will the FK15 suffice for the larger 2505?
     
  18. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    928
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    The 2505 typically uses a BK20/FK20 bearing block. I would go with the FK20. The end of the shaft where the coupler to motor goes can be 11-15mm so match it to your motor shaft. If the motor shaft is an imperial unit (1/2") then specify 12.7mm and make a note of it on the order and in the email. Works most of the time but I have had a few come just 12mm.
     
  19. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Sweet will do Jay, I'll be ordering this Monday once I measure what all my lead screws lengths are since they vary each machine.
    I wanted to get a rough estimate on the price of the ball screws.
     
  20. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Quick question for everyone that has done a build with the rong-fu sized machines. What did you use to lift the head and the table off safely? Engine hoist?
     
  21. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    928
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    I don't have much free space for maneuvering a lift so I did the table (X & Y) first. Remove the handles, bearing end blocks and gib. Slide the table to the left until you can lift it off the saddle. I can do it by myself but an extra set of hands is nice to have.

    For the head I made a support out of 2x wood blocks and lowered the head until it was fully supported. Removed the 3 nuts connecting the head to the slide and ran the table forward to disengage. I left the head on the table while I did the Z. Makes it easy to re-install the head. I also did not remove the column from the base. It did make drilling the top of the column with a 4" hole saw while standing on a ladder interesting. :cautious:
     
  22. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Redding
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Yes, I used 1605's on the X and Y and a 2005 on the Z. They are working just fine but if I had to do it over again I would do it the way jbolt did.

    Tom S.
     
  23. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Redding
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    I used a engine hoist to remove the head and column. The table is a bit heavy but one person can lift it. Two people doing it is better.

    Tom S.
     
  24. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Haha okay good to know I can do it without one since I have a one car garage and space for one of those engine cranes would have to end up in the kitchen lol

    Perfect! Thanks Tom

    Thanks Tom for the response, I figured it would be nicer to use an engine crane but if I can go without it I'm going to try and do so due to space.

    Also I just wanted to thank you all for helping me out, it makes builds like this go much easier and gives me some guidelines to follow.
     
    TomS likes this.
  25. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    928
    Trophy Points:
    113
    City:
    Mountain View
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

  26. tlmartin84

    tlmartin84 United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    City:
    Clintonville
    State:
    West Virginia

    -Return to Top-

    How much do you guys have in a "pieced together" system like this. Minus the computer?
     
  27. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    So far (and mine is not completed just need the ball screws next) is about a little over 1500, Add the ball screws and I'll be near 1900 mark but I'm sure other things will come up during the build so it will be more.

    Take in mind all of our numbers will be different as we all have different ball screw sizes and different electronics and materials utilized.

    This number is also without the cost of the machine obviously.
     
  28. tlmartin84

    tlmartin84 United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    City:
    Clintonville
    State:
    West Virginia

    -Return to Top-

    Thanks. I have an extensive CAD background, and could be much more dangerous with a CNC setup than I can by hand. It is something I eventually want to pursue.
     
  29. TomS

    TomS Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

    Likes Received:
    433
    Trophy Points:
    83
    City:
    Redding
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    I had about $4,600 invested including the milling machine. That was a couple of years ago. Since then I've made several improvements that have increased the bottom line. I'm mentioning this because you will find that after getting your conversion up and running there will be several improvements you want to incorporate into your build. It seems to be never ending but that's part of the fun in my opinion.

    Tom S.
     
  30. techbuilder

    techbuilder United States Iron Registered Member

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    City:
    San Lorenzo
    State:
    California

    -Return to Top-

    Direct drive vs belt driven, which do you prefer and why?
     

Share This Page