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PM-1440GS or PM1340GT lathe or maybe a PM1440GT

Discussion in 'PRECISION-MATTHEWS' started by jer, Apr 6, 2017.

  1. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

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    It is looking more and more like I am going to be forced into 'early retirement'. I am lucky that I thought to purchase my large machines before the money tree died. :(

    And it's a good thing I bought decent quality machines, as I won't be able to replace them any time soon! :eek:
     
  2. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    My money tree is now broke down, it withered and died. Thankfully it lasted thru the lathe, knee mill, tooling and saw.
     
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  3. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I set my lathe on wood blocks to figure out the best height for me before I went about building the risers. I had hoped to make some pucks out of 3" or 4" round stock and use the factory screws but when I determined I needed 6" the pucks got over square and I was concerned about stability. My risers are made from 2" x 1/4" angle because I had 40 feet left over from a job that canceled on me.
     
  4. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hmmm....I've never had to ask.
     
  5. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    Well the DRO is installed. The X axis was reading 10X its actual travel so after struggling thru the so called Users Manual and a little reading I got that fixed. I think I will like the DRO. Now its back to the wiring and milling a bottom plate for the QCTP. I know what electronic features I want but just need to get started.

    It was nice having the 1030V and the Super-Max to make a drill extension and machine a couple of DRO brackets for the GT.
     
  6. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Photos???
     
  7. Wood&Metal

    Wood&Metal United States Iron Registered Member

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    I would agree with sanddan, I bought as much lathe as I could afford just before retirement and got the 1340GT with the 3 phase motor based on recommendationsfrom this group. Mksj was outstanding in his assistance as well as patient in all my basic questions. I have never been sorry for my decision.


    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
     
  8. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    Mark has been a great help already. I have been abusing him and Jay for a few weeks now. I had other things that needed to be done before I could get back on the lathe. The DRO was a challenge but it is done now. My knowledge is in a very different field (drawing and building transmission and distribution power lines for a local REA, for 39 years). I will stumble through the electronics with their help, it is very different and the same.
     
  9. Hozzie

    Hozzie United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Great info here. I am also looking at the 1340GT and the 1440GS. I just do my own gunsmithing work and don't want to put out the money required to get a 1440GT, so it is really between these two.

    I really want a Taiwan machine as I do believe it is better quality, but just not convinced I want the open gearbox. Not because of quality of the threading or anything like that, but just the extra noise it puts out and there is a mental side of it that makes me think oil splashed gears will require less maintenance long term.

    I have no doubt either will work, but is the Norton gear box a valid reason to not go with the 1340? The size of both machines is more than I "need" so that isn't an issue. I don't think the GS comes in a 3 phase, but this will truly be an occasional use machine. I have a SB Heavy 10 right now, but want something a bit more modern.
     
  10. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I can't hear anything coming from the Norton gearbox while my lathe is running. The reason I chose the 1340 over my other choices (no 1440 for me...too big), was specifically the Norton gearbox. The only time I will ever need to change a gear on my lathe is if I want to cut a metric thread. So far that hasn't happened. :)
     
  11. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Hey jer, you got that machine up and running yet?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
     
  12. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    Hi Jay, I'm back on the lathe starting yesterday, I've been to busy for anything fun for the last month!

    I looked thru my leftover steel assortments, read junk, and found a couple of pieces that worked great to mount the VFD in and above the tailstock end of the lathe. I had two new 30 amp 4 wire plugins and receptacles that I will use on the mill and lathe. I am building a lexan plastic front cover for my 12x12x6" j box so the front controls of the VFD can stick out 1/2". I ran the shielded cable from the VFD to the control cabinet in the base. Now looking for 8' 10-3w/g shielded wire to go from the VFD to the motor. The protection scheme is next up to decide which options to wire into the VFD.

    I hope to temp. wire the control box today, or at least this week, to check out the basic functions in preparation for ordering the switches, etc. to complete the wiring. I will be in touch with you and Mark I'm sure to help with something I don't understand.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
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  13. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    My philosophy is it's not junk until I throw it away. I seem to have a lot of "Not Junk" ...LOL

    Be sure to post pictures of your progress.
     
  14. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    I'm too ashamed to post any more pictures in my shop. LOL. It has been in a constant state of clutter every since it was built. Not to mention some family members think it is just free storage for their crap. That is changing, but slowly. How do you tell your mom to come and get her junk or "I will take it to the dump when you die" politely? Which I have already done and it's still there. My tractor and a couple of trailers are just rotting away out in the desert weather here.

    On a better note, I temporarily powered up the contactors and light today, everything did what it was suppose to do. It was very encouraging to hear the contactors "click" when they were suppose to. Now I really am over my head from here on out. Going as slow as I have had to so far it hasn't been too big of an ordeal.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
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  15. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    Well, around several projects that have derailed the lathe project this summer I started the lathe yesterday. It gave over current fault codes in some lower gears but ran in higher ones. I will check my wiring for problems before crying help to Mark and Jay but it made me happy to hear it run, finally. I hope it just needs some VFD tweaking.
     
  16. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Probably need more information as to when the fault occurs, acceleration, at speed , changing speed or when stopping. I have updated the parameter file for this machine, see attached.
    1. Make sure the motor parameters are set correctly.
    2. Run autotune and specify that the motor values should be used (see attached).
    3. You can increase the current overload b022, I am not sure of the factory default, but try something like 150 or 170 %.
    4. The 1440GT tends to stutter on acceleration, change the acceleration time to 3 seconds. Change the acceleration curve to linear A097 to 00.

    Starting point, let us know how it goes.
    Mark
     
  17. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Glad to hear it is coming along. Your best bet for vfd/motor issues is mksj as my motor is different.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
     
  18. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    Hi guys, good to hear from both of you. I'm sure my problems are my own fault.

    Mark, the faults were at start up, E03 & E05 if I remember correctly. I will look to see if the motor info is what's being used or not. More to come.

    I don't have the tach on yet but using 60Hz as reference. The only problems have been spooling up the chuck.

    More to come.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2017
  19. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    Well, the tach and toggle jog are the only features left to finish. I am impressed with the lathe. As expected, my problems were programing related. I went through the list again and found two places I overlooked and the auto tune needed done over. All my fault. As mentioned the GT does shutter a little on spool up if asked to do so too fast. I settled on 5 seconds. I can't believe how quickly the foot brake stops the chuck, with the speeds I will use most it will stop instantaneously(thank God for spell check). I can't wait to try threading with the toggle jog and VFD combined.

    Mark and Jay helped, more like spoon fed me the info, so I could do the conversion. It isn't hard but does require your full attention. I want to thank them for all their help to make it possible for me to get the 3Ø lathe up and running with the VFD. A lot of things got in my way this summer and made it take longer that you would believe.

    Thanks for your willingness guys to help another member you only know through the forum. Mark, I will send an email with a couple of questions I came up with to run by you soon.

    When the GT is in it's final slot I will try to post some pictures of what I did to make it all mine.
     
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  20. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    Back again with an update,the jog is up and running. The covers are all back on and I am ready to start building the outboard spider and tach install which will be done more or less at the same time. I'm trying to figure the best way to open up the gear cover, something like Jay (jbolt) did to his, to allow the cover to be used with the spider and keep the spindle as short as possible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  21. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    double tap
     
  22. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    One issue to consider on the 1440GT is that the upper cover retaining stud bolt is directly above the spindle and a very short distance away. In other lathes like the 1440GS (and Grizzly models) the cover retaining stud bolt is offset to the rear of the spindle so it will not interfere with the spider bolts. On my 1240GT spider with a 1.59" bore and a spider OD of 2.5" I usually use 1.5" cap screws with an added brass tip or aluminum fingers, you would probably need 1.75"cap bolts. So I would check if this is going to present an interference problem with the cover bolt, and also take into account if external to the cover the interference with the knurled screw on finger nut that retains the belt cover. On my 1340GT I cut down the length of the upper finger nut about 1/4" so it would not interfere with the spider bolts. You might determine if the extra ~1.5 " closer to the headstock is necessary vs spider bolts a just outside the cover. One suggestion to consider is to cut a rectangular window in the gear cover similar to what is seen on the 1440GS, this could be done with a dremel or die grinder with a thin cutoff blade and you could use epoxy metal glue to attach two vertical strips of aluminum to the cover back in the front and rear sections of the window, tap some threaded shafts into the strip and use small thumb screws to retain the window in place when not using the internal spider bolts.

    One other consideration on the spider, is two have two sets of holes for the spider bolts, one set is internal to the cover, the other is external to the cover. I have done something similar to this on my spider. Most of my work is done with longer stock, so it makes it very easy to use the external spider bolt holes. If I need to need as close as possible to the headstock, I use the second set of bolt holes closer in, I also used brass tipped allan set screws which are have 1/4" shorter threaded section and no cap than the Allan cap screws (see below). This allows them to not interfere with the upper cover retaining bolt. If you used the latter, you would pop off the cover, set the spider bolts and replace the cover (or add a window). Last but not least for very short barrel work, I have seen a sleeve attached to the barrel and then the sleeve extends past the spider and is used to set the alignment.
    Cap screw vs. Allan screw spider bolts.
    20160401_090533.jpg

    1440GS vs. 1440GT upper belt cover retaining bolt location, multiple spider location bolt holes.
    Spider cover modifications .jpg
     
  23. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    The cover on the 1440gt is about .090" steel so it fabricates and welds well. I cut mine on my little CNC router but it could be done easily enough with a cut-off wheel and a die grinder. I did shorten the upper stud and knurled nut for more clearance.

    The other option is to just open up the cover hole for clearance and then remove the cover when you need to use the spider.

    For barrel work on short barrels I just use the steady rest.
     
  24. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    Thanks guys, I will review your ideas. I appreciate your thoughts/experience.
     
  25. jbolt

    jbolt United States Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Got that first ten thousand dollar part done yet? :cautious::D They get less expensive the more you make. ;)
     
  26. jer

    jer Active Member Active Member

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    Hi Jay, actually I started the spider yesterday. I had a little trouble finding something with a large enough diameter to start with locally, that was affordable LOL, then I stumbled on to a 4" piece, pretty cheap, (it's $70.00 per foot here regularly).:eek:

    Now just deciding how much to reduce it to. After I opened up the cover to ~3.6", the diameter of the recess cutout, I turned the OD to 3.4" to see what it looked like and to figure metric bolts for the attachment points and alignment bolts. It's pretty massive. 3" may have been a better choice but I'm not done yet either. So not quite $10K, but a start. I know I didn't need to start out with 4" but I got lots of practice trying out the new carbide inserts I got from Matt, I got his master set with the lathe. They work great. Now I want a threading set in BXA also.

    I mounted the sensor and ran the wiring out to the tach location. I need to mill out the AL box that holds the tach soon. I have a 12VDC power supply to power the tach in my electronics stuff. That's all from here for now.

    I can't believe how smooth and powerful the PM1440GT is. I easily cut .060" depth, fast. This is my first time with indexable inserts, wow. The 10x30 will probably be for sale soon, unless I decide to keep it for really short work.
     

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