Old vs New/American Iron vs Chines

[skeller2017]

I am in the process of purchasing a used lathe for primarily prototyping and hobby use. I have 2 in mind. One is a Gizzle G9972 (not the Z), the other an Atlas/Clausing 4800. Both seem to be the same "class" of machine. The G9972 is available for less money but the money is not really the biggest issue. It seems from some searches that the G9972 is no longer supported by Grizzle and only parts that are common with the newer 'Z' version are available. The 4800 seems to have pretty good availability, although not as good as South Bend or Logan.

Thoughts? This is my first purchase.

 

[ghostdncr]

I'd rather deal with old iron if given the choice. A lot of that is visceral and not something I can throw facts and mathematics at, but knowing I'll eventually have to work on it influences my preference. It seems to me that older equipment was generally designed and built to meet a given set of engineering requirements and MSRP was pretty much whatever it cost to produce the machine at a profit. It also seems to me that most consumer products today are built with a "race to the bottom" mentality that drives substandard quality in manufacturing, be it in parts sourcing, machining, fitting, etc. Whatever it takes to produce the finished product for 0.4% lower retail price than your competitors.

 

[12bolts]

A bit more info on your prototyping requirements, and possible future hobby, use might help to identify your market.

Cheers Phil

 

[skeller2017]

A bit more info on your prototyping requirements, and possible future hobby, use might help to identify your market.

Cheers Phil

I think it will kinda mixed. Projects will include various mechanical theatrical props/sets that require shafts and pivots points. Maybe some ACME lead screw end turning. (Just the ends, not the whole thing.) I also want to build some "Industrial Style" furniture that would include both decorative and function mechanical aspects. For example a stand/sit desk with overly large gears and shafts for the lift mechanism.

 

[BGHansen]

I have a Grizzly G0709 (14" x 40" lathe) that was purchased new in 10/2015. Also have a Clausing 5418 (12" x 24") that was purchased new by my dad for a high school shop in around 1963. The Grizzly is my main lathe and I've had no issues with it. I don't know what part availability will be 20 years down the road, but hope that the machine will hold up if I don't abuse it.

The Clausing 5418 was used at Waverly High School in Lansing, MI from 1963 - 1987 when I bought it at an auction. Twenty plus years of use in the high school shop and it runs very smoothly with little back lash in the cross feed and compound. I haven't had to do any service on the lathe. My dad does not recall ever doing any service on it (other than lubing) during the 20+ years he and his students ran the lathe.

Both machines will serve you well. Frankly, if you don't beat on the machines, they'll run for 100's of hours with no issues. I'd be more inclined to look at the tooling that comes with either lathe. Both of my lathes were pretty well equipped as received. If you need to buy a chuck, stand, QCTP, etc. consider that in the overall price of the machine.

Bruce

 

[Glenn Brooks]

I love the old, big iron machines. They are works or art. And I own several of them at the moment. However, Unless you find one that is in very good to new condition - my advice is - PASS. otherwise you will spend the rest of your life fighting unwanted taper, remaking parts due to non repeatable precision, and employing work arounds such hanging off the back end of the compound every time you want to dial in a fine tolerance.

A machine in good condition is just sweet to operate. And those that are worn out -well that's the reason we have such interesting and descriptive abbreviations, such as PITA and POS

Glenn

 

[ghostdncr]

I love the old, big iron machines. They are works or art. And I own several of them at the moment. However, Unless you find one that is in very good to new condition - my advice is - PASS. otherwise you will spend the rest of your life fighting unwanted taper, remaking parts due to non repeatable precision, and employing work arounds such hanging off the back end of the compound every time you want to dial in a fine tolerance.

A machine in good condition is just sweet to operate. And those that are worn out -well that's the reason we have such interesting and descriptive abbreviations, such as PITA and POS

Glenn

That whole post made me laugh, Glenn. Well spoken!

If one is going to pursue the American Iron way of doing things, one had best be a born tinkerer, have the patience of Job, and carry one's "pocket change" in a suitcase. The old machines assuredly are NOT everyone's cup o' tea!

 

[projectnut]

Consider the Clausing was made for an industrial or commercial operation. A such it was expected to run 40 to 80 hrs. per week, 50 weeks per year, for 20+ years before needing any major service. That would be an envelope of 40,000 hours to 80,000 hours of service before retirement or major overhaul. If it looks clean, the bearings are tight, and the bed and cross slide ways are in good condition it would be my first choice. Clausing is still in business and still supports many of their older machines. I have a Startrite H175 horizontal bandsaw that was made in England and imported to the US by Clausing in the early 1970's. Even though Startrite no longer makes the saw Clausing still supports it. Parts and manuals are only a phone call away.

I have over a dozen "old American iron" machines in the shop. Some date back to the early 1900's but the majority date from the early 1940's to the late 1980's. Even though most have been out of production for 40 years or more parts are still available. The latest acquisition is a 13" Sheldon lathe originally built in 1959. It was taken out of service and rebuilt from the ground up in 2001. The rebuild included among other things all new bearings, several new gears and regrinding of the bed and cross slide ways. Today the machine is as tight and accurate (actually more accurate since it's had a few upgrades) as it was the day it came from the factory.

Over the years I've had a few pieces of "off shore" machinery. None has held up as well as the old American iron. When there were problems or parts had to be ordered there were wait times up to 6 months. I can't say I'll never buy another piece built off shore, but I can say I'll limit it to non critical machines that won't hold up a job should they fail.