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New Pm-935 Coming Soon!

Discussion in 'PRECISION-MATTHEWS' started by Ken226, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. bss1

    bss1 United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    +1 on the recommendation for the 6" vise. Here are a few stats that may help with your decision.

    According to Glacern's website, the distance from the clamping ears to the back of the vise is the same for both the 5" and 6" versions. Therefore, you shouldn't gain or lose any more travel toward the column with the smaller 5" vise. However, you will loose a significant amount of capacity with the 5" vs the 6" vise. The 5", per their specs, only has a jaw opening capacity of 5" vs 8.95" on the 6" vise. If their specs are correct, that's a significant difference.

    I am not sure if the vise jaws and accessories are the same for a Glacern as they are for a Kurt, but if so, there will be a world more of new and used accessories available for the 6" vise vs the 5".

    I have a 6" Kurt and have used the 8"+ of jaw opening capacity on numerous occasions.
     
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  2. Ken226

    Ken226 United States Iron Registered Member

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    Lots of good advice and info here. I just ordered a 5" Gacern, before seeing the last couple posts here.

    That's ok though, I'll lose a little capacity, gain a little table space. I guess everything is a win/lose proportion battle.

    I love how quiet it runs, the head and motor are very smooth. This motor is way quieter than my lathe motor.
     
  3. Alan H

    Alan H United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Ken, I studied the Glacerns to death before I ordered one for my 935. I chose the 5".

    The 6" vise body hangs over the front of the table by 3 additional inches as compared to the 5". Since the 935 is not a full size mill, this hangover tends to cover the Y axis crank. The 2/3 size 935 mill is also a bit low so that overhang over the crank can be even more problematic.

    Here are snippets of the clamping sizes for the 5" and the 6". As Brad points out the 6" is about ~4+" on average bigger in all configurations. If I had bought a bigger mill, I would have gone with the bigger vice but the 935 is less than a full size machine and that overhang was the deal breaker for me.

    Glacern 5 vise.JPG

    Glacern 6 vise.JPG
     
  4. Ken226

    Ken226 United States Iron Registered Member

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    My Glacern will be here Thursday. The first project on this machine will be a Remington 700 Action Fixture

    Like this:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. bss1

    bss1 United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    I should have clarified that I have a Millrite which is not an apples to apples comparison. It is a similar type of machine if not a little smaller. The 6" vise does indeed hang over the front side, but on the Millrite, this hangover is of no consequence. The bottom of the vise is on the same plane as the top of the table. None of the handles on the front of the Millrite are engineered whereas the handles extend above the table top level, so there is no problem. I even currently have my vise offset to the left side of the table. As a matter of fact there is several inches of clearance as seen in the attached pic.

    IMG_5942.JPG

    With the ram on the Millrite, I can get to the outer reaches of the vise with no problem, or flip the part around to work closer to the fixed jaw side if so desired.

    I agree if PM's handles would tangle with the bottom of the vise then the smaller model would be the best choice. I guess I just assumed the clearances would be similar. Sorry for the lack of upfront clarification on my specific machine. Good luck with the PM. It's a sweet looking machine. I have been considering upgrading to one to go with my PM1340.

    Brad
    .
     
  6. mksj

    mksj Active User H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Even on a full size knee the handles will tangle, the only way around that is to get a speed handle. You can also play with the ram travel by extending it further out. One needs to look at the width of the table and also at the travel of the Y axis, and if you can use the usable clamping range of the vise. Since the 935 and full size knees have 12" of Y travel, I would recommend a 6" wide vise, most have a maximum clamping range of ~8-9 inches. Having an extra 1" in the width of the jaws goes a long way to holding longer stock more securely. Since the 6" vise is one of the most common sizes, it gives you a wider opportunity for jaws, parallels, etc. that fit this size. I would think a longer overhang is more beneficial, since the handle is less likely to hit the knee. If you want something with a shorter overhang, then maybe look at a 6" CNC.
     
  7. Alan H

    Alan H United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Certainly agree on the accessories aspect of a 6 vs a 5. For example, there is not a speed handle available that I have found that fits the 5" Glacern. So the option is to make one if you want one. So that is on my list of 100's of things to do. I know a gent that considered getting a batch made and selling them but I don't think he's pulled the trigger yet.

    Parallels are another challenge but at least Tormach sells some of those.
     
  8. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

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    There was someone here (Darkzero?) selling aluminum speed handles for 5" vices. I bought two for my 5" Kurt.
     
  9. Alan H

    Alan H United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Bill, those are long gone. I asked Will several months ago and he had none left. Maybe I'll get a batch made?
     
  10. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Well darn, that's too bad. Given the popularity of the 5" vise with the hobby machinist crowd, I would think someone with a CNC would be doing them. :)
     
  11. Lonnie

    Lonnie Active Member Active Member

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    There's a guy on eBay selling speed handles. If your vise has a 3/4" hex these should work. Speed Handle
     
  12. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

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    IIRC, 5" vises have 5/8" handle shafts.
     
  13. Lonnie

    Lonnie Active Member Active Member

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    You are correct.
    Funny you can fairly easily find handles for 3/4" and not 5/8". Seems to me that there are quite a few 5" vises being used.
     
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  14. Ken226

    Ken226 United States Iron Registered Member

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    Seems like there's a market for aluminum 5/8 speed handles. I don't see any reason one couldn't make them with a manual mill, granted milling that hex would be a PITA.

    I have a CNC and am quite good with CAD/CAM, it wouldn't be much trouble to design something in CAD and process some g-code programs.

    I'm wondering what a 6061 5/8 speed handles would sell for? I'm not set up for anodizing, but can definitely leave them in the white, or use molycoat/cerakote.

    Without doing any math, i'd think an aluminum 5/8 socket not able to handle the torque being used for a vice handle.

    Guys that have them, is this not an issue?
     
  15. fradish

    fradish United States Active Member Active Member

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    In terms of a homemade speed handle, what if you just bored a hole that would make
    a nice tight press-fit with a 5/8" socket? Maybe even heating the bar and cooling the socket?
    It's possible it might slip though. Not speaking from personal experience, just a "what if?"

    Otherwise I have seen people create hex holes manually by drilling out the 6 corners
    with a small drill, drilling out the center to remove most of the material and then
    straightening out the sides with a file. I haven't tried this myself, but it could make for
    a nice afternoon or weekend project. You could probably trace around a 5/8" nut to get
    the rough layout lines...
     
  16. Ken226

    Ken226 United States Iron Registered Member

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    I wasn't thinking in terms of making a homemade speed handle for myself, I was thinking more about making a short run to put on eBay, to gauge interest.

    I'll model something in CAD and post up a rendering for critique shortly.
     
  17. fradish

    fradish United States Active Member Active Member

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    Sorry Ken, I wasn't specifically responding to your post. I think it was Alan H who was looking
    for one?

    I was just saying it didn't seem like a speed handle would be that hard to do manually. I think you
    could make one without too much trouble with a drill press and a file...
     
  18. Ken226

    Ken226 United States Iron Registered Member

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    No prob, sometimes the nuances of speech are lost in text.

    Heres a 5/8 speed handle I modeled in cad. 6" long, 1.25 wide and .75 deep. I think I got a couple pieces of stock the right size to make one. Ill turn the handle on the lathe and use a shoulder screw to mount it.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Ken226

    Ken226 United States Iron Registered Member

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    Here's a version 2.0. I changed the dimensions to allow the use of more common 1 x 5/8 aluminum stock, and to be more manual mill friendly. Also rendered in a lighter color, the last image was too dark.

    Every operation on this one can be done on a manual mill / rotary table, including the chamfers, albeit with a lot of math and setup involved.

    I'll see about prototyping one Monday. I may have some stock in that size laying around.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. xplodee

    xplodee United States Active Member Active Member

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    I have my 6" D688 Kurt setup with my ram in such a position that I can mill against the fixed jaw or ALL THE WAY at the end of the fully open moveable jaw by moving the Y axis across its full travel.

    Considering this fact, I think it's pretty conclusive that there is ZERO reason to purchase a 5" vise for these machines. I know some people don't want to hear that, but it's true.
     
  21. bss1

    bss1 United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Agreed for this size machine in general.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  22. scwhite

    scwhite United States Active Member Active Member

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  23. scwhite

    scwhite United States Active Member Active Member

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    Good looking mill
     
  24. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Facts? I think you need to relax a bit. Your conclusions based on your 'facts' are just an opinion, and are just as valid as everyone else's here. As an opinion.

    I and other's here have perfectly valid reasons for owning a 5" vise. Maybe you don't want to hear that, but it's true. ;)
     
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  25. Ken226

    Ken226 United States Iron Registered Member

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    The 5" Glacern is plenty big enough for what I do. It's hangs over the table about 3-4" less on the front (operator) side of the machine, which gives me a little more dial visibility. I don't use a DRO, gotta be able to see my Y handwheel dial. If I ever need a bigger vise, I have a cheap wang-dong 6" vise in a cabinet somewhere.

    I made 2 speed handles yesterday. One 5/8 handle for my 5" Glacern vise, and also made a 9/16 handle for my 4" Shars vise. Turns out the Shars vise has a 14mm stud, not 9/16. My 9/16 speed handle fits it well enough, but could be better. The 5/8 version for the Glacern vise fits beautifully.

    [​IMG]
     
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  26. wrmiller

    wrmiller Chief Tinkerer H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Very nice! :applause:
     
  27. Alan H

    Alan H United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Very, very nice Ken. Size and logo engraved too! We've hijacked this thread, I am going to start a new one on 5" vice handles.
     
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  28. zmotorsports

    zmotorsports United States H-M Supporter - Premium Content Staff Member H-M Supporter-Premium

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    Very nice job on the handles and congrats on the new PM mill. Great choice.

    Mike.
     
  29. xplodee

    xplodee United States Active Member Active Member

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    Um, ok.

    Regardless, many people are trying to make the best decisions that they can for their mill. To say that a 6" vice doesn't fit well or has sacrifices may cause some to buy a 5" thinking it's a better fit for this mill. The point is there are many reasons to buy a certain size vice for a specific mill, but "fit" is not a reason to rule out a 6" vice on the PM-935. Price, weight, sure, those might be reasons for some people. Different strokes for different folks.
     
  30. Rich V

    Rich V United States Active Member Active Member

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    They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
    Galcern 6 inch vise on my PM935, works for me.
    [​IMG]
     

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