New Member From Langley Bc Ready To Start Lathe & Mill Shopping

I'm not positive, but from what I can see the PM lathes are the same or very close to the Craftex brand Busy Bee sells in Vancouver. The difference being that I have only heard good things about the after sales support from PM but the opposite about Busy Bee. At least their BC operation. It appears that PM also offers more options with their line up.

When I was doing my search for the first lathe a year ago and my second one, over the last week, I searched for Canadian suppliers of hobby lathes and pretty much came to the conclusion that it would be a Craftex or King Industrial. My opinion is that it's too expensive to buy from the US because our dollar is so low right now. I just bought a King 12 x 36 lathe (same as the Grizzly G4003). When I convert the Grizzly price (with stand included) into Cad$, the Grizzly would be almost $1,000 Cad more than what I just paid for the King 12 x 36 with a stand.

If PM had a dealer in Canada I probably would've bought both of my lathes from them because of the options they offer with their machines and the great reviews I've seen about their after sales support. However I've found an excellent dealer near me and he sells King Industrial lathes. I've had issues with my recent King purchases but I got GREAT support from my dealer and from King's head office to resolve the issues. From some threads I've read BB does not stock much, if any, parts for their lathes, so if a part is needed it could take months to get. King has parts in their head office (Quebec) and as such parts are more than likely available within a week. My experience with one of their mill drill machines convinced me to stay with that brand instead of taking a chance on BB. I did consider PM but the price difference with our dollar being so low was just too much for me. I don't think King machines are the best quality but in the hobby lathe market, I believe they are comparable to other hobby machines. The difference for me is 2 things: 1) the after sales support I got from my dealer and the manufacturer has been excellent 2) parts are available in Canada. Another point in their favor is that the Grizzly brand appears to be identical to the King brand. I checked parts lists for both of my King lathes and they are the same as the Grizzly's. It appears Grizzly may however put different motors on their machines and sometimes (as in the case of my mill drill) some extra features, like a switch that includes a reverse function. Grizzly also has a very large customer base and parts supply. Their parts prices are also good. Being in Vancouver you could easily slip across the line and get any needed parts or have them shipped directly to you.

Those are the reasons I stuck with the King brand but your experience could be different. I think having a supporting dealer and manufacturer is what makes the difference. If you're lucky enough to get a machine that doesn't need warranty work or parts for a long time, then none of that matters but if there are issues, it is comforting to know the support will be there.

I have no affiliation with any of these suppliers or manufacturers and offer this based on my research and my personal experience with the dealer / manufacturer of the machines I bought.

Hope this is helpful.
 
Yeah the exchange rate in Canada sucks, that's for sure! Wish there was something that could be done about that! But the thing is, it also is bad from Canada to Taiwan or China, or wherever the machine is coming from that you are looking at, so in general, they should be priced right about the same.

Just to compare pricing, I am looking at a Craftex 12x36 lathe that is at $4499 CAD (Not the same lathe, but similar) Thats without the foot brake, without the wedge tool post, etc. Add these things so figure around $5000 CAD. Which comes out to about $3730 USD in the converter, and we have the PM-1236 priced at $3399. Just one example, but the suppliers are in Canada are paying more to the factories to start with, so their prices shouldnt be any lower. For some reason, it seems like a tradition for the price in Canada to be higher all the time, at least from what I've found.

The owner of Busy Bee is the brother of the owner of Grizzly. Just an interesting bit of info.

I've met some of the guys from Modern Tool before, when I was in Taiwan, they were very nice guys. They were the higher ups though. But I think they are more of an industrial kind of place as already mentioned, they probably have 20x the sales that we do (Just a guess), completely different market. Mostly big machines and CNC's. And I've seen their prices before on their site, I am curious if you got a price on a machine like that 935 from them, even if it wasn't in stock. A while back when the exchange rate was about even, they were about 60% higher. Too bad you aren't closer, or I'd tell you to stop in here and take a look. Maybe check out that King if he had good luck above on pricing, see what they have too, I dont know a lot about them. Did not see anything from Taiwan, but they may have something not shown.
 
Too bad about Modern Tool.

Everyone will always try to help you spend your wallet empty. So here is my attempt....

A knee mill is much more useful than a square column mill, since it gives you a lot more option in how to cut and generally gives you a better finish quality. There are at least two individuals on this forum that started with large square column mills and ended up exchanging them for the PM935. Personally, I would jump straight to the PM935. But quality, cry once. Buy cheap, cry a thousand times!

For anyone who has space (a 12x36 lathe takes up A LOT of room), I would advocate not buying a lathe smaller than 12x36. reasons why:
- smaller lathes has a crippled Quick Change Gear Box, and you end up swapping gears every time you thread
- Smaller lathes have a bolt-on (or spin on) chuck instead of a cam lock chuck. You WANT a cam lock chuck, since it takes about 30 seconds to swap and is an industry standard so it is easy to buy different chucks.
- The following comments DON'T apply to the PM1127VF:
- most smaller lathes do not have power cross feed (which you want to give you a nice facing operation) (NOTE: PM1127 has power cross feed)
- smaller lathes usually have a higher low-end speed. Doesn't seem like a big deal to have a minimum speed of 150 rpm on a lathe.... until you are threading into a shoulder or an internal bore for the first time...

wrt PM1340GT. There is a definite step-up in quality to go to the Taiwan vs Chinese lathe. I would personally go with the PM1340GT.

Thanks Tmarks11, all good info to consider, I'm leaning toward the larger sized machines but I'll need to figure out power and space requirements.

My main shop is in one bay of my 3 car garage, but there's no room or power for the larger machines, so that's something I'll have to consider reorganizing or move it all to my large shop across the other side of my lot.

Cost wise for the larger machines is as follows.

PM1340GT with Preferred Package plus Stand, shipping and 12% taxes but no duty will be $9,250 CND approx.
PM935Tv will be a little over $10,000 so $20,000 CND is a fair budget for both machines.
 
I'm not positive, but from what I can see the PM lathes are the same or very close to the Craftex brand Busy Bee sells in Vancouver. The difference being that I have only heard good things about the after sales support from PM but the opposite about Busy Bee. At least their BC operation. It appears that PM also offers more options with their line up.

When I was doing my search for the first lathe a year ago and my second one, over the last week, I searched for Canadian suppliers of hobby lathes and pretty much came to the conclusion that it would be a Craftex or King Industrial. My opinion is that it's too expensive to buy from the US because our dollar is so low right now. I just bought a King 12 x 36 lathe (same as the Grizzly G4003). When I convert the Grizzly price (with stand included) into Cad$, the Grizzly would be almost $1,000 Cad more than what I just paid for the King 12 x 36 with a stand.

If PM had a dealer in Canada I probably would've bought both of my lathes from them because of the options they offer with their machines and the great reviews I've seen about their after sales support. However I've found an excellent dealer near me and he sells King Industrial lathes. I've had issues with my recent King purchases but I got GREAT support from my dealer and from King's head office to resolve the issues. From some threads I've read BB does not stock much, if any, parts for their lathes, so if a part is needed it could take months to get. King has parts in their head office (Quebec) and as such parts are more than likely available within a week. My experience with one of their mill drill machines convinced me to stay with that brand instead of taking a chance on BB. I did consider PM but the price difference with our dollar being so low was just too much for me. I don't think King machines are the best quality but in the hobby lathe market, I believe they are comparable to other hobby machines. The difference for me is 2 things: 1) the after sales support I got from my dealer and the manufacturer has been excellent 2) parts are available in Canada. Another point in their favor is that the Grizzly brand appears to be identical to the King brand. I checked parts lists for both of my King lathes and they are the same as the Grizzly's. It appears Grizzly may however put different motors on their machines and sometimes (as in the case of my mill drill) some extra features, like a switch that includes a reverse function. Grizzly also has a very large customer base and parts supply. Their parts prices are also good. Being in Vancouver you could easily slip across the line and get any needed parts or have them shipped directly to you.

Those are the reasons I stuck with the King brand but your experience could be different. I think having a supporting dealer and manufacturer is what makes the difference. If you're lucky enough to get a machine that doesn't need warranty work or parts for a long time, then none of that matters but if there are issues, it is comforting to know the support will be there.

I have no affiliation with any of these suppliers or manufacturers and offer this based on my research and my personal experience with the dealer / manufacturer of the machines I bought.

Hope this is helpful.

Thanks HBilly1022, I did check out the Craftex brand and dropped into their store when shopping for parts for a Busy Bee Drill Press, and they didn't carry the parts for that drill press anymore.

Their machines are probably one step below Grizzly and fit and finish was very poor for the lathes they had on the floor in their store, looks like a family run business and the owners were present while I was there.

I would consider that product if I was on a tight budget and wanted to get started rather than wait, but I think I would be happier with a better quality/finished product, I really like my good quality tools and always regret it when I cut costs even though I usually know better.

King lathes are sold at KMS tools, I almost bought one on sale a few weeks back just to get started (12x36) IIRC, but after fiddling with it a bit decided to walk away and see how I felt about it in 24hrs, I must not have felt right as I didn't return to buy it.

Thanks again for your info it is appreciated and helpful for me to go through this process.

Regards,

David
 
Yeah the exchange rate in Canada sucks, that's for sure! Wish there was something that could be done about that! But the thing is, it also is bad from Canada to Taiwan or China, or wherever the machine is coming from that you are looking at, so in general, they should be priced right about the same.

Just to compare pricing, I am looking at a Craftex 12x36 lathe that is at $4499 CAD (Not the same lathe, but similar) Thats without the foot brake, without the wedge tool post, etc. Add these things so figure around $5000 CAD. Which comes out to about $3730 USD in the converter, and we have the PM-1236 priced at $3399. Just one example, but the suppliers are in Canada are paying more to the factories to start with, so their prices shouldnt be any lower. For some reason, it seems like a tradition for the price in Canada to be higher all the time, at least from what I've found.

The owner of Busy Bee is the brother of the owner of Grizzly. Just an interesting bit of info.

I've met some of the guys from Modern Tool before, when I was in Taiwan, they were very nice guys. They were the higher ups though. But I think they are more of an industrial kind of place as already mentioned, they probably have 20x the sales that we do (Just a guess), completely different market. Mostly big machines and CNC's. And I've seen their prices before on their site, I am curious if you got a price on a machine like that 935 from them, even if it wasn't in stock. A while back when the exchange rate was about even, they were about 60% higher. Too bad you aren't closer, or I'd tell you to stop in here and take a look. Maybe check out that King if he had good luck above on pricing, see what they have too, I dont know a lot about them. Did not see anything from Taiwan, but they may have something not shown.

Well I feel special getting a response from Matt directly to my thread, how cool is that?

Thank you for the response, I will call you to pick your brain about what you suggest.

I like the package Mike from Zmotosports got but the whole 3 phase deal really gets me in over my head. I'll need help on that if I go that route.

I did not get any pricing on the 935 but he gave me a number on the Linmac VY-2VS 949 Knee Mill, $7,900 IIRC and I believe he told me it's used as that same serial number is listed as sold on their website, it's a pretty big machine.

I have noticed that with a lot of equipment we buy, we get to pay quite a lot more than the US does, in fact at times I can buy a product online for 20% less than when I buy direct from a manufacturer.

Thanks again for responding and I'll talk with you next week.

David.
 
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You might want to contact one of our members, LKeithR. He is very close to Langley and runs a machine shop there.
 
It's possible I could certainly save a few $$ by buying from a local shop, but I'm just not that into buying on price when it comes to a technical purchase like this, I need to know they want my business and that they will work hard to take care of me if something goes sideways after the sale.

I have no association with QMT or Matt, I have never been a customer, but I've read enough on this site to know he supports his customers. I have read nothing but positive comments here.

Everyone will always try to help you spend your wallet empty. So here is my attempt....

That's not what I'm attempting, however, you said "we do a lot of large repetitive tasks" and that almost screams out CNC. I guess you pay more for the operator or the machine.........you decide. If the operator is you, perhaps you can make concessions on the price of your time, however, if you miss your kids growing up then any price is way too low.

For some reason, it seems like a tradition for the price in Canada to be higher all the time, at least from what I've found.

I have noticed that with a lot of equipment we buy, we get to pay quite a lot more than the US does, in fact at times I can buy a product online for 20% less than when I buy direct from a manufacturer.

(/rant on) Fight it brother! Until all these over-pricing b@5t@rd5 get the point that we will not be held hostage by their ridiculous pricing strategies that's the way it will remain. Did you know that US auto dealers near the border have been told by "corporate" not to sell to Canadians? Buying a car in the US and paying the conversion, taxes, plus cost for inspection (day-time running lights, etc.) can still be less than the price here! They say that the population will not support the lower price, I say put the Canadian dealers out of business until they find one that will do it!!!!!!! (/rant off)

Well I feel special getting a response from Matt directly to my thread, how cool is that?

I don't mean to burst the bubble of your individual importance, but that's just Matt being Matt.
Yes it is way cool! He looks after his business name and customers........as an owner should!

If you do decide to go with King, find a local dealer that will support you. I feel lucky, my local dealer (Cardon Tools) is terrific! (again, no affiliation, I am nothing but a happy customer!)

Please keep us updated on your search and results!
-brino

EDIT: and oh yes......I got distracted.........Welcome to the group!
 
Hello Brino, thanks for the welcome and your input, just to clarify, the repetitive tasks are our tech's fitting electronic locks in the field, so with good jigs we can get them semi automated to install them more accurately and that saves time with adjustments afterwards.

We also have to modify locks when they get shipped with the wrong configuration and need to make parts rather than wait 6 weeks for the replacements to arrive.

Currently we are forced to do all this with a drill press and hand tools unless we buy premade jigs and the issue with damage can bring a job to a holt quickly, so the better machines will improve the quality of our handmade jigs by a huge margin and hopefully allow us to get a good return on the investment overtime.

I can justify spending a little more on the machines as they will help us be more productive at work and then I get to play after hours on them.

David.
 
You might want to contact one of our members, LKeithR. He is very close to Langley and runs a machine shop there.

Hello Chris, I looked up this member and his profile showed the last time he was online was in 2012 and has no posts.

Do you know him personally and can forward his details or did I miss something?

David.
 
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