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New Arrival-PM935TV

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mike240

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#1
Fed Ex brought it today. I got the crate roof and walls removed but it is still bolted to the pallet. It is in the drive in bay of the shop but needs moved to its final resting place in the climate controlled attached room. That task will have to wait till the weekend.

I'm a rookie at all of this so I am sure I will have plenty of questions. My first being suggestions for R8 collets. I didn't get the PM set (maybe I should have) questioning if there was something better somewhere between there and Hardinge...
 

T Bredehoft

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#2
There may be higher quality (more expensive) R8's than Matt offers, but unless you're working for NASA, it doesn't matter. Other collet systems may offer more options, square, hex, etc collets, but unless your mill is made for them, R8's are about all you can use.
 

mksj

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#3
Specific to R8 collets, there can be some variation between brands/sellers. I recently purchased a 10 and 12mm from Shar's ant and their TIR was not acceptable for my type of work. Sometime you can find a set of Lyndex or Crawford at a reasonable price, otherwise Vertex are more reasonably priced and tend to have a bit better QC then some of the generic sets. Most end mills come in fixed shank sizes so you do not need a lot of odd fractional collet sizes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERTEX-R8-R...1-8-to-3-4-for-Bridgeport-Mills-/231863951469
 

Alan H

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#4
I agree with Mark. You've spent a significant amount of money on a new mill so why not assure that you do not introduce poor performance into it. Get some good collets. Compared to what you have spent already the incremental cost is small.

I spent some time researching collets earlier this year, 5C and R8. I called and spoke to several suppliers/distributors here in the US and Canada. The tangle appears to be a relatively low demand for R8's & 5C's now. I am guessing the US market is more focused on CNC and the R8/5C has been left for the Chinese.

I have ended up with Lyndex and Crawfords. They are made very well. Of course Hardinge is top shelf but the cost is prohibitive from my perspective.

For Crawfords, be sure to buy the older Crawfords made in the UK if you can. Don't be fooled by the newer stuff branded "Crawford PBA". Pratt Burned America now owns the Crawford brand. They bought the brand and it is apparent to me that they are "farming" it. They'd like you to believe that their collets are still made in UK or now in the USA, not so. They are still promoting 5C collets but may well have gotten out of the R8 business altogether. You don't see evidence on their website of them offering R8 any longer. But be aware that there are a lot of NOS Crawford PBA R8 collets out there for sale.

The Lyndex are made in Japan and good stuff. Lyndex is part of Lyndex Nikken. If you were to buy collets from McMaster Carr, you will very likely receive Lyndex.

As Mark points out the Vertex are likely the highest quality Asian. My research indicated they may be one of the few still made in Taiwan, not MLC. If I were going to buy Asian, Vertex would be high on my list.

Takes a little patience but you can find what you want. I bought from the UK and ebay to get what I wanted over the last several months.

By the way, I started out with a set from Matt when I bought the mill. They are decent for the cost and got me started.
 
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grantj

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#5
I picked up a set of collets from PM's ebay site. For the most part, they are better quality than I need. The 1/8" and 3/8" slot for the alignment pin is too narrow for the pin on my PM935, but I still have my previous set so I haven't gotten around to fixing the slots yet. I suspect a few seconds with a a die grinder and they will be fine.
 

Alan H

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#6
I picked up a set of collets from PM's ebay site. For the most part, they are better quality than I need. The 1/8" and 3/8" slot for the alignment pin is too narrow for the pin on my PM935, but I still have my previous set so I haven't gotten around to fixing the slots yet. I suspect a few seconds with a a die grinder and they will be fine.
Are they too narrow or too shallow? The latter would be a common problem that is remedied by adjusting the alignment pin in the mill. EDIT: Many simply remove it.
 
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T Bredehoft

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#7
If you study the build of the spindle you can find how to back the locator pin out a scoshe, that's all it takes. I prefer to keep the pin, my (lack of ) logic says that they put it there for a purpose, its not up to me to remove it.
 

peder.wennberg

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#8
I bought a set of collets from Matt for my 935 for two reasons: first I wanted a full set of decent volleys at a reasonable price and Matt stands behind what he offers and second, you likely won't use very size so my intent is to purchase Lyndex going forward for the sizes I use most. Saves a lot of money not buying sizes you won't use.

Use of the alignment pin is a personal choice. I removed mine, but I'm using a power drawbar and it works just fine without it. I really think it is there for manual drawbar use. jmho

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 

wrmiller

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#9
I prefer to keep the pin, my (lack of ) logic says that they put it there for a purpose, its not up to me to remove it.
People do lots of things, for many different reasons. Logic may or may not have anything to do with it. ;)

(I'm sorry...I just couldn't resist :D )

EDIT: I too left mine in for the same reason. Zero issues with it. I'll throw another vote for the Vertex. I have them and they work great. And no problem with clearing the pin. But my metric Hardinge I bought for my electronic touch probe would not clear without a little touchup. Go figure. :rolleyes:
 
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mikey

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#10
As Mark points out the Vertex are likely the highest quality Asian. My research indicated they may be one of the few still made in Taiwan, not MLC. If I were going to buy Asian, Vertex would be high on my list.
I beg to differ on this one, Alan. The best Asian collets are probably Techniks, made in Taiwan. They are superb collets and are very, very accurate. In a good chuck with a good nut, they easily equal a Rego-Fix or ETM collet and will beat a Lyndex collet, at least in my primitive testing.

People tend to think that an ER collet is an ER collet; who cares if a cheap Chinese collet has 0.0005" more runout than a good collet? Well, let me tell you that when accuracy counts (like when cutting woodruff key seats or dovetails) a good collet with almost no runout will be worth everything you paid. Run out affects accuracy and finish so good collets are more important than most hobby guys think.

Just as important to accuracy is the ER chuck nut. Not all nuts are created equal. The jury is still out between a ball bearing nut and a hardened precision nut but I have both and I prefer the hardened nut. I have found an ETM nut or a Rego-Fix nut is more accurate than the cheapy ball bearing nuts I tried (yes, I know, not fair). How much difference does a nut make? Up to about 0.0005" of runout, that's what I found. Good enough for me to stick with ETM or Rego-Fix.
 

wrmiller

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#11
Ok, I missed something. I thought we were talking about R8 collets. How'd that get to hardened or ball bearing nuts? :)

FYI, I do precision dovetail cuts on guns all the time, and I don't use any of these uber-precision collets you speak of. Could be that I'm just a hobby guy and don't know no better? Sorry, but the work speaks for itself, and I do some pretty good work, thanks.
 

Alan H

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#12
Mikey, agree with you on ETM. It is very good stuff and I have some of their stuff but I don't think they make R8's do they?

I didn't think that Techniks makes R8 collets. So I looked and I found they do make Weldon holders but no R8 collets.
 

mikey

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#13
You guys are right and I'm embarrassed. I thought we were talking about ER collets. I'll bow out now. :frown:
 

Alan H

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#15
You guys are right and I'm embarrassed. I thought we were talking about ER collets. I'll bow out now. :frown:
No foul Mike, at least I dug a bit deeper on Techniks. Always appreciate your insights and all the help you have given me.
 
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